The Art of Communication
This fun podcast series is for anyone who has to deliver a message, tell a story or speak to another human being. Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen cover all aspects of how you connect with everyone you meet - whether you're giving a speech, running a meeting or simply talking with friends. Our Communication Experts series includes experts in many different fields: TV and radio presenters, politicians, auctioneers, writers, professors, lawyers, film directors, actors, art dealers, photographers and designers etc. Everyone will be an expert in communicating with their audience in their particular medium. Robin Kermode, is an actor, best-selling author, leading Communication Coach, popular keynote speaker, body language expert and media commentator. For more information visit: www.robinkermode.com
The Art of Communication
Adapting your Style
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Adapting your Style.
Communication has dramatically adapted over the last year. How can we take advantage of this to make sure that our message lands with every audience, every time? Why might we need to adapt our communication style anyway? In which circumstances? In which ways? And how? In this episode, Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen discuss the subtleties of adapting your style.
Hello and welcome to the Art of Communication Podcast with me, Robin Kilmode. Have you ever wished you could become a confident speaker or presenter? Then why not join my online masterclass? Speak so your audience will listen. In 10 easy to follow modules, you can become a confident and authentic speaker. For more information, visit robinkilmode.com.
SPEAKER_01Hello, this is Siane Hansen, and I'm here as ever with Robin Kermode. Hello. And this podcast is about something really fascinating. It's about adapting your communication style. Now, Robin, we all have to communicate in all sorts of different circumstances. But why do we need to adapt?
SPEAKER_00Well, the main thing is that not everyone communicates in the same way that we do. So some people are very direct, some people go around the houses to get to where they want to get to. Some people like a lot of detail, some people just like the top line. I think depending on the person we're talking to and depending on the situation, it can be helpful to look at the way we communicate and sometimes to adapt it.
SPEAKER_01And the adaptation takes place how and when? Is it because you go into a new organization or you're in a new country, or is it because you're going to speak to somebody who maybe doesn't speak the same language as you? When do we need to adapt?
SPEAKER_00If you take the first example there, which is when you join a new company, often the culture of a company, which is quite a big thing at the moment, people like to look at the culture of companies, often I think the culture comes down from the top. I remember my father was a teacher and he said you could walk into a school as a potential new parent, you could park your car and you walk to the front door, and in that time, before you've even been in the building, you know how well run that school is. So you have a clear idea of what the culture of the school is. So for example, if a pupil comes up to you and says, Oh, well, good morning, can I help you? You know this is a culture of kindness, for example, that it's a welcoming culture. Now, I've worked with clients where they join a new company and they say, Do you know what? The style is so aggressive that I'm keeping my head down so I don't get it bitten off, and I'm not quite sure how to communicate with anybody.
SPEAKER_01So are you making the assumption that whatever atmosphere you go into, they are not going to adapt. You have to adapt to them. They're not going to adapt to you.
SPEAKER_00Well, they might adapt if they're good at it, but I think we can't assume they're going to adapt. So it's up to us to start the ball rolling. It's up to us to make the meeting go well. When I was younger, I thought I could go into meetings and think, well, if they're nice, if they were pleasant, if they were similar to me in some way, then the meeting would go well. But actually now I walk into a meeting and think it's my responsibility to make the meeting go well. So I have to adapt to other people and I have to, in a sense, read other people and slightly change my behavior.
SPEAKER_01I've always found when I go into a meeting of any kind that while I need to adapt, I also want my voice to be heard. I also want to make my point.
SPEAKER_00And to remain yourself.
SPEAKER_01And to remain yourself. So this is a fine balance, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00It is because you know we don't want to be all things to all people all of the time, because that doesn't work. So we want to know who we are, but we can adapt the style of our communication.
SPEAKER_01In order to be heard.
SPEAKER_00In order to get the result we want. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sounds like a good thing in a marriage. To be able to. Should we not go there today? To be able to, or any partnership. Because it is. I mean ultimately that's what we all want. We just want to be understood, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Well, actually, on a basic level, I think we just want to be heard.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, you're right. We just want to be heard. We just want to be heard.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I've worked a lot with leaders who do these town halls. They go around and talk to various parts of the company all over the place, and they often give the message from central office. Now, the common feedback from people who work in those specific offices is yes, it's all right, the top brass come down and talk to us, but are they really going to listen to us? You know, they ask us questions and they ask our advice. Is anything actually going to change? And I think it's about being heard and being listened to.
SPEAKER_01So that brings up another really interesting point, I think. Is communication always critical? I mean, we spend our lives talking and sending emails and whatsapping and texts and we're overly communicating at the moment. Is there any chance that you can be a really successful person in your chosen field or, you know, participation in any kind of community project where you don't have to communicate all the time?
SPEAKER_00It's interesting. I mean, we've called this podcast the art of communication, and I think everybody understands what they mean by that. But actually, nobody gets up in the morning thinking, I want to be a great communicator today. They don't. What they do is they want to connect with other people. And they connect with them because either it's a generous act, or because you maybe want their involvement to help you in some way. So you're actually trying to find an easy win-win for them to want to help you and for you to help them, and then that's the circle of life and everything is great. But the idea that, you know, we want to be great communicators, I think is fine if you want to be a professional newsreader or something. But I don't consider myself a communicator. I just want to go and talk to people. I want to meet people and engage with them.
SPEAKER_01And if we just move into a company situation, whether it's a startup or whether you're joining a giant organization that already has a very set culture, what's the point of communication within a company?
SPEAKER_00Well, the point of any communication is to have a positive outcome. So basically, we want people to know who we are. So the style in which we engage with people tells them who we are. So you can say, oh, that's an empathetic person, that's a brusque person, that's a sharp person, a bright person, a difficult person, or challenging person. We all make judgments about other people, and what's the judgment based on? Well, it's based on the style in which they communicate. Even one stage back from that, it's the intention behind it. The difficulty though is that if your intention is to be friendly and open and relaxed, but your body language and your manner is rather brusque, then people will see the brusqueness. They won't go beyond that. So it is up to us to adapt so that even if we know we're not actually like that inside, we can adapt the way we show ourselves so that people can see the real us and we can still get the job done.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting also what you say about the fact that it's to create a positive culture. I mean, of course that's what happens in an organization. You communicate in order to create a culture of openness and transparency. Um, I've always seen it slightly differently. I see as communication as avoiding disagreements.
SPEAKER_00When you get more than one person trying to do something, there can be a disagreement because someone says, Well, I think we should go left, and the other person says, Well, I think we should go right. So immediately you could have a potential disagreement there.
SPEAKER_01So let's get down into the nitty-gritty here. Let's say someone is going into an organization and has to deliver to somebody whose background is maybe in the military. Very old-fashioned kind of leadership style. I'm at the top, cascading down responsibilities. Am I more clear? Am I more direct than I would be if it was a group think?
SPEAKER_00It's really about working out in a top-down organization who is the person who has the ultimate decision. I remember we're going for castings as an actor, for example, and you'd go in to read for a part, and around the other side of the table would be maybe the writer, the producer, the director. Now, successful actors will work out very quickly who is the person who has the most power the other side of the table, and that's the one maybe you need to influence most. In a top-down military organization, it would be more sensible to be shorter and clearer in your messaging. In a groupthink, I think you'd probably soften the language a bit more and say, I know we've all thought about this, and maybe this is a suggestion, what do we all think? And so the style is much more open. There's something that's I I love doing, which is, and I'm not a great fan of NLP, the neurolinguistic programming, but I do like this bit of it, which is repeating words back to people. So if you're trying to persuade somebody, listen to the words they use, because people are either visual, auditory, or they're emotional. And someone who is visual will use words like, I can't see that happening. And if they say, I can't see that happening, means that you can later on saying, when you look at that, how does that seem? That will have more resonance with that person. Another person who is auditory might say, Listen, it doesn't sound right to me. It just doesn't sound right. So then later on I would say, you know, how does that sound? Because that's the word that makes sense to them.
SPEAKER_01Right. So pick up on the feedback that you're getting.
SPEAKER_00And another word might be for the emotional person, they would say it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. And then later on you could say to them, does that feel right? But if I said, does that feel right to somebody who's a visual person, they're gonna go, well, it looks right to me, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't really. And so I think sometimes it is about reading other people.
SPEAKER_01You mentioned about adapting to them in order to communicate better with them. What do you really mean by that?
SPEAKER_00Well, you can't adapt until you know what their style is. So the first thing is we have to understand what their style is, and that means we have to take time to understand it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, d to listen.
SPEAKER_00To listen and to watch and to observe. So I would say one of the best things to do is to not say too much at the beginning. I had a doctor once who was brilliant at this, and you go into the surgery and he'd say, Um, Robin, how can I help you? And then he never said anything for 60 seconds. So this is how it can kind of how it goes. So he'd say, Robin, how can I help you? And then I'd say, uh, well, I've got a problem with my shoulder. Now, because he doesn't say anything, I have to keep going. So I say, and it's kind of um, yeah, it's got a shooting pain, it's been quite annoying. He's still not talking, so I have to carry on. And he goes, So yes, it's kind of um I've had it for about two weeks now and it's it's really annoying, and I've I can't sleep on that side, so actually I'm in fact I'm not sleeping very well at all. So what happens is the doctor gets a much better understanding of the real situation, what the real problem is. And he said, for example, often a presenting condition, which is the the reason that you go into a surgery, is often not the main issue because sometimes a patient doesn't actually want to say what the real issue is. And similarly in communication, sometimes people will say it's one thing, but actually it's the other thing.
SPEAKER_01And you've said that before in one of our podcasts about selling, is that you should actually sit back and maybe listen in the first instance because you might hear what their problem is and you can adapt your communication to solving their problem.
SPEAKER_00Well, somebody once asked me to go into their office and I said hello, and they said, Okay, pitch yourself. And I thought, I've asked you you asked to see me. And I said to him, I said, Well, I'm very happy to tell you what I do, but I said, I don't know how to craft my response. So I said, if you can tell me what you want, then I'll tell you if I can help you or not. You know, the more information you get from someone as to what they want and what their intention is, when you understand what their intention is, then of course it's clearer for you to be able to hit the right tone.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's even more important nowadays because we're doing a lot of this on video. And you maybe you can't see a lot of the body language or anything, so you're going to rely on what they say.
SPEAKER_00If you give them space, they will say more. They'll fill the silence They'll fill the silence, they'll say more, which is more information for you to be able to understand how they actually want you to communicate with them.
SPEAKER_01It's utterly fascinating, isn't it? That's really interesting. Basically, what you're saying is in order to communicate better, you have to listen.
SPEAKER_00Yes, in order to speak well, you have to listen well.
SPEAKER_01And respecting them.
SPEAKER_00And respecting them. Ultimately, it's about respect. It's interesting. We started this podcast talking about adapting our styles for countries, for somebody joining a new company. But similarly, cross-culturally, is also an interesting topic. I've given talks all over the world and I try to tell lots of jokes, and I find that I get the same response with a joke anywhere in the world. People say, Oh, I'm not sure that this culture will get that joke. I'm not sure that's true. I think certainly the jokes I use, which are fairly self-deprecating jokes, which is a kind of a humanness, I think that humanity is the same the world over. So I think if you treat people with respect wherever you are in the world, you will always connect with them.
SPEAKER_01And be able to communicate. I know there's nuances though, because you've worked, like you say, all over the world, and you do, whether that's America or in Europe or in Asia and India, even. And I know that you adapt a little bit in terms of how you deliver your modules of training.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I I would say it starts with my body language. So I would read the energy level and the body language first, and I would probably try to mirror that. It's very important, like you said at the beginning. We don't want to change our personality each time because I still want people to know who I am when I'm in a room, but I would be more direct with some people and less direct with others. You know, some people need lots of encouragement. So some people you would say, Well, I love what you're doing, this is fantastic. Just try this next time. Another person would say, Don't mess around with me, just tell me what you really think. Therefore, with that kind of person, you have to say, Do you know what? I liked what you did, wasn't great, let's try it again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's really about adapting. And I think obviously, as coaches, that's what our job is to do that. But I think in life also it's really helpful to be able to read other people and know the style in which they want to be given information, whether it's good or bad news.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I know that from my experience and in my background, that if I'm talking to someone from Japan, from India, or I'm talking to somebody from the United States, I will definitely adapt. And how I communicate a message may not necessarily be in a formal setting. You choose your setting for communicating, don't you?
SPEAKER_00Definitely. And there are some cultures where most of the agreement is done before the meeting. In some cultures, we turn up to the meeting and think, well, we're here to discuss this. In other cultures, it's we're here to rub a stamp this, because actually we've done all the discussion over a drink the night before or whatever the whatever culture is.
SPEAKER_01In some cultures, i.e. Finland, I seem to remember quite a lot of that communication in business is being done in a spa uh at the end of the day. What I'd like to move on to now is the flip side of this. So you're in leadership and you have to send out a clear message. It might be an urgent message, it might be a complete change in strategic direction. How do you adapt your written message or your verbal message in order to hit the right note with everybody?
SPEAKER_00I think you don't actually have to do a huge amount of adapting for that. You just have to do everything with respect. I think respect and kindness goes a long way.
SPEAKER_01So digging down into, let's say you have a very simple message, you know, this year we're going to focus on people and make sure that all our talent management is up to speed and everybody knows how to progress in this firm. And you're going to talk about that as a strategic initiative. Do you think it's a good idea to just deliver that message, or do you put in stories, or do you give examples, or do you do it by email? Do you give it in a speech and then back it up with some written communication? How do you do this?
SPEAKER_00Well, everyone can have their own style. Very important to have a consistent style. So if you're the leader of an organization and you want to be seen in a certain way, then all your communication has to be done in that style. So you can't have a situation where you turn up to an event, a live event, or a town hall, or even a virtual event where you're open and friendly and kind, but then your emails are rather curt and sharp. It's not consistent. So I think a lot of communication is around consistency.
SPEAKER_01Consistency is really very important. I can see that. Because across a digital strategy, we talk about a tone, you know, a certain tone of voice, a certain across all your digital platforms. And I'm sure that goes straight into how you conduct yourself at a town hall or how you write an email. So, how do you think you would advise somebody who wanted to understand what their tone of voice was? What kind of to-do list would you give them?
SPEAKER_00Well, in that situation, what I would talk about is Danislavsky. And Danislavsky is, as many listeners will know, was a Russian acting coach, and he wrote a book about acting. And his idea really was that everything was about intention. So when you talk about tone, it is the tone, but before the tone comes the intention. In other words, what are you intending by that tone? So if I give an example here, if I was rehearsing a play and the line of dialogue was, I'm going to get a cup of coffee. An amateur actor would say, I'm going to get a cup of coffee. And you think, yeah, that's fine, that's what you're going to do. It's very logical, very literal. But a more experienced actor will understand what is the intention behind that line. And this is, I would work with senior leaders and do this kind of work because in that situation, I'm going to get a cup of coffee. It may be, for example, Siane, that we're sitting here and I'm thinking, you're going to ask me a question I don't know the answer to, so I'm going to get a cup of coffee. So I'm saying that I'm saying that line to escape. That's my that's my intention. My intention is to escape. I might be saying I'm going to get a copy because I'm absolutely exhausted. In which case, the way I say that is very different. Before tone comes the intention.
SPEAKER_01So I think a really good final point for this podcast is do you think communication uh has adapted? How has it changed?
SPEAKER_00Well, publicly, I think it's changed a lot. It's become much more soundbitey. We're all used to politicians saying what they want in five or six sentences.
SPEAKER_01And do you know something? That's so true, because I'm used to you from a couple of decades ago, the art of public discourse. You know, there was great pride in being able to persuade someone of your argument using long-form written word or discourse. And that seems to have fallen by the wayside, do you think?
SPEAKER_00It's changed in many ways, hasn't it? If you look at movies, they seem almost underwritten compared to movies of the 50s, where the dialogue was fast and sparkling, and now there seems to be lots of long, thoughtful gaps. And maybe that's more realistic. But in terms of debates, you know, when I was younger, we would have leaders who would actually debate the arguments. Now, when we have leadership contests in whichever country around the world and they're televised, it seems to be a slanging match, and it seems to be very short headline arguments going backwards and forwards. And the depth doesn't seem to be there. So I think that is a real challenge. Whether that's what the public want or that's just what they're being fed, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I think the really vital point that you're making is that if we are in short-form communication now, because that's either what we want or it's what we're getting, does that hamper communication? Does that mean we don't understand each other better? I'm only asking this because over the past couple of decades, of course, social media has rushed into our lives. I thought that would mean that we communicate more and we understand each other better. But has that actually happened?
SPEAKER_00Well, the Twitter generation of the short sound bite reply zapping all over the place means there's a lot of noise out there, but not necessarily any particular detail. I think what has happened is that communication from big companies, brands, governments, and everything used to be top-down. So it used to be this is how we feel, this is what we do. But now communication has been led by the consumer, led by the ordinary people. And what they're saying is, we want this, we don't want that, which means that brands have to be very careful because we all know now it's very easy to tweet that you're not happy with the customer service or whatever.
SPEAKER_01And then everybody finds out.
SPEAKER_00Everybody finds out it goes around. I've often found that sometimes you're trying to get through to a big utility provider and you get no joy on the telephone. So you think, right, I'm going to resort to tweeting. So you tweet, and guess what? They phone you within three minutes because they're terrified of the bad publicity. So the power of social media has changed the way in which governments and brands talk to us now. The way they communicate is kinder, is clearer, more honest, because it has to be. And I think that has got to be a good thing.
SPEAKER_01Robin, thank you so much. As ever, utterly fascinating, lots of food for thought. And here's to the next time.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever wished you could become a confident speaker or presenter? Then why not join my online masterclass? Speak so your audience will listen. In ten easy to follow modules, you can become a confident and authentic speaker. For more information, visit robinkilman.com.