The Art of Communication
This fun podcast series is for anyone who has to deliver a message, tell a story or speak to another human being. Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen cover all aspects of how you connect with everyone you meet - whether you're giving a speech, running a meeting or simply talking with friends. Our Communication Experts series includes experts in many different fields: TV and radio presenters, politicians, auctioneers, writers, professors, lawyers, film directors, actors, art dealers, photographers and designers etc. Everyone will be an expert in communicating with their audience in their particular medium. Robin Kermode, is an actor, best-selling author, leading Communication Coach, popular keynote speaker, body language expert and media commentator. For more information visit: www.robinkermode.com
The Art of Communication
Being Natural on Video
Being Natural on Video.
How can you appear natural in front of a camera, whether you're a shooting social media video or filming a company message for your team?
We look at why authenticity and a conversational tone are crucial, even in formal settings, and learn practical tips for sound and lighting to produce a flattering and natural feel.
Join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for another fun podcast episode as they unravel the secrets to producing authentic and engaging videos.
Hello and welcome to the Art of Communication podcast. We'd love to hear from you, so if you have feedback or ideas for future episodes, please contact us via my website, robincurmodecom.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody. It's Sian Hansen here, as ever, with Robin Curmode. Hello, and video has become part of our lives. It's something that almost in every role now you might be asked to make a video or you might want to make them for yourself, and that's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah, whether it's business or personal or social media or whatever it is, and you get a lot of people asking you for help now.
Speaker 1:But certainly in business, obviously, which is where most of my work comes from. Whether you're leading a team or whether you're leading a company, you might want to give people updates, you might want to motivate the team, you might want to give a seasonal message. It's how we do that, in a natural way.
Speaker 2:Tell me when the clients are asking. I'm just curious, right, Do you find most are nervous about making a video, or are there some pros that are just really used to it?
Speaker 1:There are some pros who think well, I'm good at public speaking and there's, what's the difference? So there's that. And then I think some people feel well, I've done so much Zooming and so much Teams, online meetings that I think well, what's the difference now?
Speaker 2:Yeah well, it's quite different. I mean, I know you can learn some techniques now that we're on camera, now that we're on camera.
Speaker 1:like you said, I think people are comfortable in front of a camera now because it happens all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, are you? Oh God. Sometimes I look at myself and I think oh no, if I'd had more warning, I might have changed the way I dressed or looked.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know what you do, sian, but I certainly, if I'm on a Zoom call no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Talking about here is we're talking about making a video, yes, and we can talk about the technical side. We'll do a tiny bit of that, but that's not really what this podcast is about. What you, I think, interested in sharing with your clients, and what they're asking you to share, is how they come across really well on video as totally authentic. Is that what we're aiming?
Speaker 1:at. Yes, I think you're absolutely right. It's the authenticity bit. It's very easy to go formal, super easy to go formal, and particularly if you're a team and you're cascading a message down, we want to find a way of being really clear so that people know exactly where they are and the strategies demonstrated and everything. We want to do it in a way that's very conversational. It's a tricky area to get right, actually.
Speaker 2:that yeah, but of course we're also going to cover informal videos as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, social media videos as well. Social media videos as well, where there's no chance of being formal or you're walking down the street and you don't necessarily want to be.
Speaker 2:Certain occasions, I suppose in life do require formality, but probably not on video right, that's interesting in itself okay, the first thing I wanted to say is let's just get the technical side of it. If you have any control over how it's going to look like, just the image. What advice can you give us on the quality of the image?
Speaker 1:Well, the two basics about all filming, as you know, is lighting and sound. So if you're lit well, then the camera can focus well and the image will be nice and sharp. If you're in dull lighting, we've all done Zoom calls in hotel bedrooms and things where the lighting isn't great late at night and then we look so grainy because there just isn't enough light. So I think having really good lighting is good and under lighting, of course, is much more flattering. Oh is it? And when you get to my great age, you really want to under light because you want to knock a few years off. But under lighting is good. The other thing is getting the sound right. If the sound, even though the video might be watching on a small phone, if the sound is clear, weirdly you can see the picture better.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, fair.
Speaker 1:And it's a bit like in the old days of television comedy. If you want to get a big laugh from an audience in a comedy, you have to light them slightly brighter than normal and you have to make the sound really clear. Then you'll get the laugh.
Speaker 2:That's a really top tip actually, because I'm sure many people aren't thinking about that. They're thinking much more about where do I look, you know, am I looking down the camera and how do I deal with an autocue? Actually, could you answer those questions? How do I deal with an autocue? Do I look straight down the lens?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on where the autocue is. So if you're giving a speech on a stage, obviously you might have comfort monitors down at the bottom of a conference, or you might if you're a politician, you have the full kit. You might have the glass screens, a left and a right monitor, essentially, but on a video camera, what you probably will try and do, like a newsreader does, is you have the autocue straight in front of the lens, which means you can read it but appear to be looking into the lens. And there's a bit of a trick, of course, because if you do have an autocue, if you keep your head dead still and your eyes go from left to right as you're reading, then what happens is we know you're looking at the autocue because your head is steady and your eyes are going left to right, which of course you don't do that if you're looking at somebody. So what you want to do is to slightly move your head from side to side, and it disguises the fact that your eyes are moving.
Speaker 2:Oh, good tip. Okay, if there's no autocue, where do I look?
Speaker 1:Well then that depends if you have notes or not. So if you have your phone set up there or you've got a camera filming you I suppose the equivalent really of comfort monitors you can have a post-it note each side with bullet points. Essentially you can do that, but you will see somebody looking at those because the eyes will dart to the left or up right and you'll see it and they look slightly shifty. If they do that, and if you have your notes on the table, you're constantly looking down and looking up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 1:So I think it depends really how long the video is, because if it's short enough, hopefully you can memorise enough of it not to have to have the notes.
Speaker 2:Right, we'll get to the bit about how long or short in a second, but I do want to ask you this killer question Do you practice? Do you practice even for a social media video, do you?
Speaker 1:practice. Well, I try and do it in one take. So I think about what I want to say and I have a go at what I want to say, and then I film it once, and if there are mistakes, I leave the mistakes in, because the mistakes actually make it sound natural.
Speaker 2:Oh, good point. What I want to do is just get these small little things out of the way that I know you know about and our listeners are going to want to know about. Ok, tell us about thumbnails, because the the start of a video. When it's posted, there's a little image before the video starts. What's important about a thumbnail?
Speaker 1:Well, often the first image and I've come across this myself and I have to say I'm guilty of this sometimes the first image is you about to speak and so you have a slightly odd frozen moment before you go into the movement. And often there's a better shot halfway through, and certainly I have some videos on my website and when we shot them, we chose a thumbnail halfway through. That was actually a better thumbnail and that goes at the beginning because it makes you want to click on it. You think, well, that's nice, that's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me it's about colour. It's a nice colour palette, it's an eye-catching few words, something that's really visually snappy, where you really want to click on it, because this is what it's all about. If you have a video, linkedin, five times more likely that people are going to click on it and watch the video than if it's just text. And then I just want to cover off some really quick things. Do the images always fit to the spec, depending on where the video is going to be played?
Speaker 1:are you going landscape or portrait?
Speaker 2:yeah, on which channel yeah?
Speaker 1:well, traditionally, youtube has been landscape, and anything you watch on your phone tends to be portrait, because that's how we shoot videos. I do everything as if you're filming on the phone, the landscape one. It's as if you're trying to make a movie and you think, well, I'm not trying to make a movie, I'm just having a point oh, you're making a point but, maybe in a corporate video, that all that whole decision is taken away from you.
Speaker 2:And I'm just saying there's some videos where you could see that, however they created, the image or the video doesn't fit with the format to your point there.
Speaker 1:I mean on my website. We've gone for landscape on the website because it looks more like a movie, it looks more expensive. So there's a difference between something that's going to be up there for a long time that's a statement and something that's uh oh. By the way, here's a thought I've just had.
Speaker 2:As a natural, the steward gives in portrait and then I'm just going to point this out only because it's sort of my bag to always point things like this out you have to be super careful of copyright and that you have permission.
Speaker 1:If you're going to put those sort of things, mix them in with the video yeah, but if you're going to cut away to images, yes, you will get find out and you will get so be absolutely sure that you know you own it or the right to use anything.
Speaker 2:Yes, all right, then, finally, using text across the video, you mean like a transcription of what's been said.
Speaker 1:Well, transcription is good. I always do that because some people watch in offices with the sound off, and then at least you can read it, which is nice. And you can have one word. If I was talking about voice, for example, I could have the word voice across the bottom whilst I was explaining the voice, and then, when I move to another subject like body language, you have body language there, so that can help focus. But that's rather the equivalent, almost, of having a PowerPoint slide.
Speaker 2:Actually, have you ever seen that? Now, sometimes they don't have text to help you along. They say watch this video with the sound on. That's what the text says. But I have to say I quite often watch videos with the sound off, particularly in public.
Speaker 1:But if they didn't have the transcription, you'd just be trying to livery, yeah, livery, absolutely Okay, brilliant.
Speaker 2:That's all those sort of bits and pieces out of the way. Do you know what I mean? That's all the sort of bits and pieces out of the way. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Yes, they are most of the bits and pieces. One thing about sound, though, which we haven't said, is if you're filming outside, there's often so much ambient noise that you're not quite close enough, and I use a little clip-on microphone and that plugs into the phone. They're super cheap and they're not expensive at all, but the sound quality then I think that would hugely help. So I would say, invest in a tiny little clip-on mic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what about if you're in your own home or you're just doing a quick video on how to put your make-up on, or something?
Speaker 1:I do a lot of those. Yeah, I know, I know your make-up. Stop, stop it Stop it.
Speaker 2:Your makeup cupboard is bigger than mine.
Speaker 1:Let's not go there. I can't believe. You just said yeah, but I'm an actor, so you have all those things.
Speaker 2:Let's not go there, Robin.
Speaker 1:You have all those things.
Speaker 2:But if you're doing a little video at home, do you typically put on a lapel mic.
Speaker 1:Well, you use the mic on the phone, but actually the lapel mic is better, right, even then it. I would wear a dark shirt if I wanted to clip a microphone on, for example.
Speaker 2:It's getting complicated now.
Speaker 1:I know this is getting complicated, okay.
Speaker 2:Listen, we have to get on to the meat and drink of this podcast. Does it make any difference if it's a 10-second video, a two-minute video, a five-minute video?
Speaker 1:Well, the structure of a video and it's like the structure of a short story and the structure of a novel overall is not that different in the sense you still have to have a beginning, middle and end. So it has to have that flow and I think if it's really short then it needs to be snappy, obviously so one idea, so one idea right what I would do, I think, if I was working with a client on this.
Speaker 1:I'd say what do you want the viewer to take away at the end of this? In a sense, why are you doing the video?
Speaker 2:So decide that right at the top.
Speaker 1:Before you even do anything, and that will probably inform whether it's 10 seconds or under a minute, or whether it's actually a little bit more detailed.
Speaker 2:Right. I remember making videos in certain jobs that I've been in, and the intention of them was various. One was to put it on the SharePoint. The internal intranet yeah, and what that was, was anybody new joining the firm had to listen to me talk 20 minutes about compliance. Can you believe how boring that was?
Speaker 1:In your defense. I did watch it actually. It wasn't that different, no, but it's helpful because you have to know the culture of the company, and so that was watched over and over again for years.
Speaker 2:Actually, we didn't have to change the content until the laws changed. I, we didn't have to change the content until the laws changed. I see what you mean. There has to be a decision about why you're making the video.
Speaker 1:Yes, but in your particular case, there there's a danger we turn into a teacher if we're not careful. Yes, now that's fine, because in a sense, you are teaching them. Follow these rules, follow these rules. But even within that, there's a way of sounding like an annoying teacher or somebody who's actually being helpful, Right? Am I showing you this video to say, if you don't follow this, you will be in trouble? Or am I giving you this video saying do you know what? Here are some helpful things to keep you safe?
Speaker 2:So it's a kind of mindset thing, helpful things to keep you safe, is probably best on all videos.
Speaker 1:It is really, and of course, that mindset is going to make you speak in a slightly different way and the tone will be different and therefore it will sound less condescending no, that's really good advice.
Speaker 2:I wish I'd had that actually before I made that video, because now it's there forever. I don't even think they've changed it now that I've left the firm, but they still leave me up there saying it. But there's been other videos that I've done which are much softer in their tone and they're much more about introducing the firm. You know you. You normally need a video to say what do we do, welcome and why would you be interested in knowing us? And this is what we hope to build over the course of many years. It saves a lot of explanation and you can just keep playing it if you have a roadshow, so you play that and then you get on to the and you can have the leader.
Speaker 1:Maybe the CEO can actually say this is what we stand for and this is how it is Exactly.
Speaker 2:This is my team and then you often have sort of cutaways to some of the employees and a picture of what you do and what your product is and all that kind of thing, and interns and graduates and everything.
Speaker 1:So everybody has a chance. Everybody has a chance.
Speaker 2:And, you know, wrap it up with some great music. Actually, we didn't talk about music, simply the. Do you simply the best? Yeah, but if you are doing a short social media video and you're teaching people about how to do this, do you ever talk about the overlay of music or that doesn't matter?
Speaker 1:well, generally I think music sounds a bit cheesy, it sounds a bit corporate because the kind of music you can use with no copyright, it's probably going to be a bit dingly, dingly, dingly, lift music, sort of corporate music. Yeah, and I think cheapens it in a way. Yeah, much better to be a bit ding-a-ding-a-ding-a-lift music, sort of corporate music, and I think it cheapens it in a way Much better to have a natural acoustic of traffic noise around you or birdsong or whatever it is normal sounds. I think it's better Now if you're doing almost like a commercial for the website of the company, a kind of statement of this is who we are then of course you can have r that I think that's a different thing we're not talking about and it's top and tail as well.
Speaker 2:You know it's intro and out you know.
Speaker 1:So everybody knows the videos coming in or out or the kind of videos they have you can have at a conference where it's it's kind of a rousing start and they've somebody's cut fast together eye of the tiger.
Speaker 2:All that sort of stuff go, go, go, do that again, yeah, okay. So you're basically saying, make sure you know why you're doing it and have a memorable point yes, and we always should put ourselves in the mindset of the person watching it.
Speaker 1:So, for example, if it's your first day at work and you're nervous and you're going to watch this video saying this is compliance or whatever, we have to understand that the people watching it are in a nervous state. So rather like an airline pilot who says it's all calm, it's all fine, you know what we're doing. We want to feel nice and reassured and you know we made a right choice and actually I've worked a lot in companies with this. On the first day their biggest thing is have I made the right decision to take this job? So part of the videos is about reassurance, but they don't often put that reassurance in there. They just go straight into this is what you need to know. But actually part of that welcome video is a reassurance.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really good points. So now we've decided what the memorable point is, or the intention of the video. How do you start? Just give me the basics here. How do you start?
Speaker 1:It's the same, to be honest. It's exactly the same as making a speech. It's the same as writing a novel. You start writing a novel, you write the first sentence in the hope that somebody will then read the second sentence. And exactly the same when you're making a video. You start saying something in the hope that they'll listen to the next sentence. So you're trying to grab them in. And there are five essential ways to start a video or a presentation or a talk or anything. These are the five ways. The first is the benefit, and the benefit is what salespeople would use. By watching this video. You'll learn this. There's a benefit to watching it. The second one is a question which gets you thinking why is the world in this way? Why does this happen? You go yeah, why does that?
Speaker 2:happen. It kind of makes you I've wondered that too.
Speaker 1:Yes, the next one is a statement that you agree or disagree with. Since COVID, communication has changed. You can agree or disagree, but it gets you thinking again. So there's the benefit. The question, the statement, the shock is the next one, and the shock really is a call to action. If we don't sign this deal by Thursday, we're toast, or it could be on a social media channel, unless you do something about this now.
Speaker 2:Look what's happening in our community, exactly.
Speaker 1:So there's a call to action, the benefit, the question, the statement, the shock. And the last one is the story, which has a nice energy to it, actually on videos. So my phone rang this morning at seven o'clock. You never know who's on the end of the phone.
Speaker 2:You see, that's the one that I will just keep listening.
Speaker 1:It's very natural, isn't it at a desk talking, or sitting on a park bench or something, or whether you're walking down the road?
Speaker 2:driving in your car or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on the subject matter, on the short form social media, video stuff. I think if you're walking down the street, there's movement in the way you're holding the camera. It moves up and down naturally because you're walking and it feels very unstaged.
Speaker 2:It's not like having a steady cam or something, and it's so popular.
Speaker 1:And you go do you know what happened this morning? I was on the bus and talking to somebody and they're telling you this now because it's just happened. So there's a bit of immediacy about it. So that's, I think, the kind of video where you do want to have a moment.
Speaker 2:Oh, I tell you why people do it because they want to share. They share it with you, or whatever. It's about sharing, you're right, it's about a relationship you're building with the viewer. Okay, so now you've decided which one of these five things, or a mixture of these things, that you want to anchor the video in. But what about that first sentence? I mean in the story version? I think it's quite obvious so there I was.
Speaker 1:So there I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was five years old, and so how do you get that first sentence, how do you get that inspiration? And I suppose before you switch on the recording device, did?
Speaker 1:I just say that.
Speaker 2:Did I just say that Recording device. Recording device. When you switch on your recording device, do you already know your first sentence? Actually, do you already know your script for the whole thing?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think you have to know the whole script. You have to know your point, but you do have to know your first sentence.
Speaker 1:The first sentence is going to grab people. So, whether you're using the benefit, the question, the statement, the shot, the story, you know your first sentence. But the really key thing for the first sentence, I think, is that it shouldn't have any formal words in it. It's the same as making in it nothing, Even if you're the CEO and you're speaking to the team. It's got to be very, very natural the first sentence, Because then you think, OK, I'm not going to be talked down to.
Speaker 2:Can you give me an example just to unpack that? What do you mean by natural words and not corporate words? I'm putting them on the spot here. Can you just chuck out a couple of lines that sound natural to you and sound too corporate to you?
Speaker 1:OK, so here's the corporate version. Good morning, thank you for watching. I'd like to tell you our objectives and our strategy for the next quarter, and this will relate particularly in the terms of teams and the structure within our organization.
Speaker 2:I mean. I want to shoot myself now, frankly, because I don't know where this is going.
Speaker 1:So how would you say that more naturally? But more naturally if you said I've been thinking about where we're going with this company and I've got a couple of ideas. Oh, you see, I mean it's chocolate cheese.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got it okay yeah, and what's your body language at this point? And how are you sitting, how are you moving your hands and your head and everything? How's that all working?
Speaker 1:well, again, it depends if we're going corporate websites, landscape movie and they do side shots and things and lots of moody lighting or are we just going to be natural? I think on this podcast, let's concentrate on the natural bit. So when you've ever had to do a video, sian, what's going through your mind just before you start?
Speaker 2:actually, I think what's going through my mind is is my hair hair in the right place? Is my voice going to come across? Well, I'm not actually thinking about the words.
Speaker 1:Or the content.
Speaker 2:No, I'm pretty comfortable.
Speaker 1:You thought about the content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought about the content and actually I pretty much know what I'm talking about. So I mean, I would never make a video about something I didn't know about. So I'm already quite confident about the content. But I'm usually having a complete crisis about the fact that this is being imprinted on a video that's going to be available and probably escape into the public domain, because normally they do.
Speaker 1:They do, yes, yeah that's a human thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I want to make sure I look okay, it's a human thing and even actually now, when you google me, videos come up from way back that I didn't even know someone was videoing me. Yes, that's true, so I'm concerned about that.
Speaker 1:Last year we filmed a couple of promos for the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we also filmed a couple of podcasts as well.
Speaker 2:I think it was the frequently asked questions.
Speaker 1:It was frequently asked questions, and so we had lots of bits that we could use, obviously and it was a sensible thing for us to do.
Speaker 2:But how for us to do? But how did you feel in the filming of that? Actually, it was the first time I've ever done anything like that, and can I say to anybody out there who's going to do this, it was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be well, you made it look easy.
Speaker 1:You were very good no, it just was.
Speaker 2:It goes back to if you know what your intention is and why you're doing the video. Yeah, actually it was fine. I wasn't too worried about anything else. Mind you, we had a good crew I think my most tricky moment was just what do you do with a cup of coffee? Because they said you needed a mug or something to make it look informal, didn't you? So I had a cup of coffee, I actually had coffee, and I thought when do I sip it, or do I just leave?
Speaker 1:it. I never picked mine up didn't you, did you just let it go cold.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't be doing it. No, no, why? Because it's another thing to think about. I leave it there as a prop, I don't edit it and actually I should just say, by the way, one of the challenges a lot of my clients have is when they're senior and they're asked to do a video. The comms team come in, they set it all up it's beautifully lit and everything and they go and five, four, three, two, one action, and then they freeze because they're not used to doing live television or live thing. Then I go to the camera team. I said, can you just start rolling now? And I chat to my clients and I go. So what's your first line?
Speaker 1:great, whenever you're ready, just go for that oh and they edit out the, and you edit out all the first bit, right. Where's that moment of now?
Speaker 1:really unhelpful so if you're live streaming, do you do some jumping jacks beforehand and things like that and just warm up your voice, because you are going to have to go straight into it on a live stream yes, the trouble with live streaming and it's the same as live television or live radio is that with adrenaline we tend to go faster and we tend to get subconscious over excitement, which means we tend to sound a bit too manic if we're not careful. What I would say, if you're doing anything live, is go slower than you think.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, just go slower. Good advice, okay. And then what are you doing with your voice? I mean, you're making a video. Is it different to making a speech on stage? What are you doing with your voice on the video?
Speaker 1:Intimate. I would say one word is intimate.
Speaker 2:Why? Because you're talking to one person down the camera.
Speaker 1:Is that what's happening? I've talked to lots of radio presenters who maybe run the Breakfast Show or whatever on radio and maybe they have five million listeners and I said who are you talking to? They said always one person. It's always one person and they go. So are you in your kitchen this morning? Are you going to have toast or are you going to have cereal? What are you going to do? You're talking to one person. You're not going hello all you. You're probably in close-up anyway and therefore, the way we either lean in or the way we show emotion, exactly.
Speaker 2:What about being happy or sad?
Speaker 1:Well, I think don't act it because you're in close-up and it'll show, okay. But I think, avoid being over serious because I think sometimes when people in corporate life are just giving information, it can just be a bit neutral Right and neutral doesn't really cut it because it doesn't have any emotional connection with it, unless it's a very, very serious, tragic message. I think, just keep the inner twinkle. We always talk about this. Have a little inner twinkle in your eye, as if I'm happy to share this information with you.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I'm happy to be doing this video, and this is interesting information that I'm sharing with you and we can use active words, like I'd like to tell you about this morning.
Speaker 1:I've been instructed to tell you about this. It's not as good, as you know. I'd love to tell you about this this morning and I think there's a kind of softness we can afford to be really natural. And I remember when I was coaching the auctioneers from one of the big auction houses in the world and I always said to them look, one thing you don't have to do is to act authority, because you're in the rostrum, you have the gavel, you're in charge, you have the microphone. So you don't have to act any authority at all.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's the same in a video. You're in charge.
Speaker 1:Well, you're in your message. You don't have to act in the authority. Everyone knows who you are, and it probably says CEO underneath, and whatever, so you don't have to do all that. What we want to do, though, is to say I might be up in the rostrum, I might have all the power, I might be the CEO, but actually I couldn't run this company without you. We're all in this together, and there's a mutual respect, and that comes from intimacy with the voice.
Speaker 2:And then finally, finally, how do you think it's best to end a video? I know that's a really wide question, robin.
Speaker 1:No, it's a very simple question. It's a good question, is it?
Speaker 2:Oh well, it seemed pretty useless to me, but anyway, how do you end a video?
Speaker 1:You don't want to get to the end of the. So those are my thoughts, really.
Speaker 2:And I hope that you find them interesting and maybe whatever you have a nice day and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think that was probably helpful. This is rambling. Okay, don't ramble, don't ramble, don't let it peter out. So ultimately, we want to start well and subtly conclude.
Speaker 2:I told this story because oh, we're using your headline sandwich then.
Speaker 1:Start and finish with the same thing.
Speaker 2:Even if it's a 30-second video? I think so. Yeah, because it's probably the same as a speech. You have to say it more than once for people to hear you. Yes, you do, oh, but they can play the video again they may do, they may, they may do.
Speaker 1:They probably won't. But I think what they want to do at the end is they want to know why was I listening to that?
Speaker 2:and just make it easy for them, just tell them yeah, so this has been fascinating and I don't think actually we've covered it all, because it looks like on the technical side and on the content side, we could talk about a lot more in terms of making the most impactful video, the one that has the most shares, the video that goes viral but does it want to look impactful or does it want to look natural?
Speaker 2:that's what I'm having I think what you're saying is be natural and let the universe decide, yes, whether it's good enough to be shared millions of times, or it's good enough for your employees, or it's good enough for the messaging for the company.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, I've done lots of videos over the years and one of them went viral.
Speaker 2:One of them went viral and we never understood me and the team we never understood why.
Speaker 1:No, it was incredible To me it was no better, no different to all the other ones. And one suddenly went whoosh.
Speaker 2:Why is that? So we don't really have much control over that.
Speaker 1:So we don't really have much control, but I wasn't trying to think right, I'm going to have one that's going to have massive impact and just going to take the world by storm, because I think that would look like we're trying too hard. So I think the naturalness is the way forward. Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much. I really enjoyed that. We'd love to hear from you, so if you have feedback or ideas for future episodes, please contact us via my website.