The Art of Communication
This fun podcast series is for anyone who has to deliver a message, tell a story or speak to another human being. Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen cover all aspects of how you connect with everyone you meet - whether you're giving a speech, running a meeting or simply talking with friends. Our Communication Experts series includes experts in many different fields: TV and radio presenters, politicians, auctioneers, writers, professors, lawyers, film directors, actors, art dealers, photographers and designers etc. Everyone will be an expert in communicating with their audience in their particular medium. Robin Kermode, is an actor, best-selling author, leading Communication Coach, popular keynote speaker, body language expert and media commentator. For more information visit: www.robinkermode.com
The Art of Communication
Asking for Money: The Art of Fundraising
Asking for Money: The Art of Fundraising.
Many people feel that asking for money is hard. They say it can be difficult and embarrassing.
From fundraising for charitable causes to funding business ventures, we discuss some of the communication secrets to asking for money.
Whether you're raising for personal causes, charities, or business investments, join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for another episode of this fun podcast.
Hello and welcome. It's Sian Hansen here with Robin Kermode. Hello, today we're going to talk about something that we all have to do at some point in our life, that is, asking for money. We've all done it. We've all done it we have to ask for money. Now, robin, when are those circumstances? At what point in your life do we ask for money?
Speaker 2:Well, as kids, of course, we ask for pocket money. We ask for money for things as we become teenagers, so we have to do that because we don't have an income. So that's how it starts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:As adults, we probably ask for money raising money for a charity or something like that, yeah, or maybe we're professionally raising or we're raising funds for business investment. So we have to ask different types of people for different types of money, different volumes of money at different stages.
Speaker 1:And do people ask you to help them get the tone right in your coaching?
Speaker 2:Worked with a lot on tone, a lot on messaging. If you're raising funds for a business, for example, people want to know is there a market for it and why would they invest? And then from a charity, is the story clear enough? So it's all about making it clear for the person that you're asking.
Speaker 1:I think it is Because they don't want to throw money away. But isn't it really about trust building? Trust Because you want your money either to give you a return if it's for a for-profit business. If you're thinking about giving money to a charity, it's going to be about trusting the people running the charity.
Speaker 2:So, for example, if you're raising money for your church roof and you give 100 towards the church roof and it goes on forever and ever and ever, and they go, we still haven't quite raised enough yet, you think. But I put my money in there. Where is the roof? It's not tangible.
Speaker 1:So we're talking about a contract in all circumstances.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's an emotional contract, but it's still a contract.
Speaker 1:But that's not the purpose of charity. Charity was, you know, almsgiving. Way back in the 1500s it was about almsgiving. I mean, it switched of course, broke with the Catholic Church and then the essence of giving was less about saving your soul and a little bit more about doing societal good. But isn't charity about doing it anonymously?
Speaker 2:Well, there are two types of people, aren't there Some people who will just help because they want to help, Rather, like you, might do it in a very small way. You see somebody on the street who's in need of something and you say, can I buy you a sandwich or whatever? And there's that kind of giving which is sort of anonymous. And then there's the people who say I want to give a huge amount of money for your hospital, but I want the hospital to have my name on it.
Speaker 1:So that's actually quite a big topic that you've just identified. So why don't we talk about that in a separate section a bit later on in the podcast? But what we really need here are the basics on raising money for any cause.
Speaker 2:actually are what Well, first of all, know what you're going to say, Know what your story is. That requires some thought. It requires some practice. What you don't want to do is to get somebody in front of you and misfire. You don't want them to come away going. Well, I don't really know what you're asking me for or what my return might be, whether it's emotional or financial or whatever. If it's not clear, they won't give it. So the first thing is to be really clear about what your ask is, be clear what they will get from it, and tell a story that they can relate to and they can remember.
Speaker 1:So is that a personal story? It's like storytelling.
Speaker 2:Charity ads on television do this a lot. You know, there's a name of a child and they make it specific. So here's young Layla, for example, and she was given this amount of money and this is what it enabled her to do with her life. Yes, so you can see? Okay, so if I give what to me might be a small amount of money, but it's going to make a massive difference to that person. It's specific.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's storytelling relatable. And then, what about the deck? I assume you always have a deck. Well, you don't like PowerPoint presentations and things like that, but I think in this circumstance, when you're asking for money, you actually have to take them through the whole process.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think what people want is something that looks legitimate in a way, something that looks proper and organized. You don't want to throw your money away thinking, well, the church roof might or might not get made, but if you say, look, this is our plan and this will happen, you want to give money when there's a certainty involved. You feel safe with a certainty. If you do want to use a deck, then I think we just have to make sure that we lift the deck off the page.
Speaker 1:I have a little rule I don't actually hand out the deck.
Speaker 2:As you're pitching.
Speaker 1:As I'm pitching, I'll say I'll send it to you or I'll hand it out at the end, right, if you give them the deck in printed form and or send it to their laptops, they just look down, they don't look at you and you lose out on all that good stuff that you talk about, like eye contact.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the connection, the human connection.
Speaker 1:And also. I feel, somehow I can paint a picture in my words rather than having to give them a picture. There's lots of pictures in decks. To try to invoke an emotional response Of course yes. With words you can create that and you practice, practice, practice, practice.
Speaker 2:So many people don't, but you just should practice so this is interesting who do you practice in front of Sian? You well, okay, maybe sometimes you do, but not always. If I'm not here, do you practice in front of your family? Because a lot of people say I practice in front of my family, I love my family, but I would never would you never practice in front of it?
Speaker 1:no, why my family? Why?
Speaker 2:not that I offended my family, listening, I love my family. No, there's too much sibling rivalry and things I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1:Oh, we should unpack that in another. Maybe we'll do. We'll do one communicating with siblings maybe that's another, another time. No, I would practice and in fact I've been known to be walking the streets and practicing out loud.
Speaker 2:I definitely do that.
Speaker 1:But I just know that I have to practice and also I write myself frequently asked questions, the questions I know I'm going to get. I practice my answers.
Speaker 2:But that's rather like in the law courts. They always say never ask a question you don't know the answer to, so you don't ever want to be thrown to do so.
Speaker 1:You don't ever want to be thrown. I used to be a stockbroker and part of being a stockbroker is trying to convince people to give you the money to buy the stocks and they put them in their portfolio and I would pitch and I would often get the same questions on a certain topic and then I realized actually what I have to do is have the answers already.
Speaker 2:So I think what we're saying is a lot of fundraising, or asking for money is about the certainty that the money you give is going to be used in the right way. Yes, and that comes from building trust, really doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Actually, you can broaden that out a little bit and you can say it's about and this is a golden rule for fundraising for charities is you have to create a connection to the cause. Now you do that in a business relationship as well. So if let's say, you're pitching for an investment to invest in a lithium mine, right. So what you say is look, you have an electric car, in that battery in your car is lithium. It has to come from somewhere.
Speaker 2:Or maybe something emotional. If you're saying this is a medical research company and they're going to come up with some cure for something that you have some personal relationship with, that illness, then you might be more likely to invest in it, partly because it's a good investment but partly because you want to find a cure for that thing. Yes, and they have a personal connection, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So it's being connected to the cause and building a relationship. But if we just get a little deep here, it's about you have to like the person. I mean what's like sales? Have you ever given money to a charity where you don't like the person who asked you?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:So it goes back to what you always say about a human connection, and it's the same when you're asking for money. But can we just talk about this scratchiness? I mean, there's always such an awkwardness. Should we just call it the cringe when you're asking for money, isn't there?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting. I was on the street the other day I've just come out from a coaching session and I was feeling good because I had a nice coaching session and the sun was shining. It was great and there were two young soldiers there and they were raising money for soldiers who were finding it hard. These men had been in service, they come home and they're struggling, some of them struggling to find places to live, and they were saying we're doing this because we believe it's the right cause and this amount of money will help this. And they were very specific about what the amount of money was and they asked me for a certain amount and I gave them 10 times that and it was purely by the way they asked me and I thought actually, this is a really important thing to be helping with. They managed to tell a story as we were saying. They weren't pushy about it, they were just two really nice guys on the street.
Speaker 1:So you liked them, I liked them, and there was a personal connection.
Speaker 2:and this is what I'm getting to, totally, totally, and I trusted them that the money I gave was going to go to where they say it was going to go.
Speaker 1:So you just created a golden moment there, totally Because that's exactly what you should be aiming for. It's not cringy to ask for money. It's actually not awkward, although in the UK, for our UK listeners, it is socially very awkward to talk about money any type of money it is.
Speaker 2:But what's interesting with these people is because they weren't embarrassed to ask and they did it very cleanly. But if they'd done it with a mixed message I'm sorry to ask, but in that kind of British way, you know then it would give me an excuse to go. Well, actually, no, I'm too busy, you're right.
Speaker 1:You have to elevate it to a clear ask and you have to connect to the cause, which clearly is what they did. But here's another twist on what we're talking about you just told all our podcast listeners that you gave to that cause. Now, in different cultures, there's different approaches to whether you say and advertise, if you like, or brag some people might use that word about the amount of money that you give to charity or a certain charity, or actually you might even brag about how much money you're investing in various different businesses or markets or something like that.
Speaker 1:What do we think about that? In America? It's really clear it's more culturally accepted that you say you gave to that charity, you put your name on it, you tell all your friends because you want to create some sort of giving circle and you want to encourage everybody in and around your environment to give to the same thing.
Speaker 2:And there is a societal expectation. That's what you do, 100%.
Speaker 1:But you also do it in business. You say I've just put in a lump sum to this investment because I think this is going to be really hot. You write about it in the newspapers and all sorts of things. Because I think this is going to be really hot, you write about it in the newspapers and all sorts of things. Now here do you do that. Essentially, what I'm saying to you, Robin, is there's a kind of dilemma that you're faced with when you're giving money, whether you tell people about it or not. How would you handle it if you were a philanthropist or you were a big investor? Do you stay anonymous or do you talk about it?
Speaker 2:But that's down to the individual. There are some people who want their name in lights and there are some people who don't, and that's fine. But if you're the person who's asking for money, the clever thing to do would be to work out what that person wants. If you think they want the hospital named after them or whatever it might be, you say, well, obviously we could do that for you. If that's something you would like, maybe put it in your grandchildren's name, you know whatever. And there are other people who say we understand you might want to be anonymous, and this, and that's also fine. All of this is actually giving the potential donor what they want and it's about reading the situation.
Speaker 1:We have that lovely connection, don't we, to a botanical garden in Mexico where my parents decided that they wanted to give to this particular botanical garden. It's really lovely and it's very touching, and they've involved their donors in their work over a long period of time, obviously, because it's a garden, you know, it takes years and years to grow, and they did it by tiles, didn't they?
Speaker 2:Mosaic tiles on the floor.
Speaker 1:Mosaic tiles hand-painted mosaic tiles, and one of the tiles has their grandchildren's name on it.
Speaker 2:Yes, which is very nice. What's nice is that if the grandchildren ever go there, they will see it and it will be there forever and maybe they'll give. And maybe they'll give because their names are on the tiles.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're now veering into this section that I said that we'd get to, which is all about the motivation for giving.
Speaker 2:On the motivation, I think you're much more experienced in fundraising than I am. Sian, I advise people in asking for money in business, but in charity work I think you're much more experienced than I am in that, Although I have worked with some charities as well. But what have you seen as the main motivations that people give?
Speaker 1:Well, it's amazing because I've been doing this for about 25 years or something, so I know a lot of philanthropists and I've done a lot of asking.
Speaker 2:I'm going to interrupt you here and say, because you can't say but Sian is one of the best fundraisers I've ever met. I can say that because I'm not you, but you can't say that there are many many people out there doing it for very good causes.
Speaker 1:There are, but you're particularly good at it, but I certainly enjoy it because actually I'm quite curious about people, and hearing about people's motivation for giving is an extraordinary well, to be honest, it's humbling. You know to hear from various people about why they give and we know that charity is an incredibly important part of society. Now, I mean it props up the state. Actually, countries all over the world just wouldn't exist without the third sector Philanthropy and giving and asking for money is more important than ever. So, to state the obvious, it comes from a genuine desire to improve the lives of others and address social issues.
Speaker 1:I've met a lot that have this real moral duty baked into them. They feel a sense of moral duty, empathy and compassion. People are just kind we talk about that all the time and they're just kind. But in many different contexts you're encouraged to give. It's a sense of satisfaction and fulfillment. If you've never done it, try it, because when you give money to a charity, there's this extraordinary feeling that you have that you don't get at any other time of life. Maybe you'd get it if you gave it to a business proposition and it made money, but it's going to be a slightly different sensation. I've noticed and we've done a lot of research on it in places that I've worked, I've noticed that giving locally has the biggest fulfillment factor Giving locally so you can see a community come together.
Speaker 2:In my case, I went to grammar school and because I had a free education, there's part of me that now thinks, when that school is asking for money, that I should give some money back, absolutely Because I had a free education.
Speaker 1:Some motivations to give are not as pure as others, if I'm using the word pure in the right sense. Clean might be better, but they have a sense that they want their name up in lights, that they want to be acknowledged for it. That they want the tax benefits is a big one. They have a certain point of view over how a society should be run, so they're going to give money to a think tank that will try and influence that.
Speaker 1:Maybe they have a particularly strong cultural or religious belief that they want to promote. Yes, and there's corporate philanthropy, which actually is all baked into their csr agenda, so the corporate social responsibility agenda, so that can have a kind of cynical edge on marketing and things like that. And so when you're asking those people for money, it's a slightly different way to ask.
Speaker 2:So they are getting something back from it in a kind of soft PR way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, PR way, and they're putting it in their brochures and maybe they're producing a product that has a lot of plastic in it. But oh, look over here we give money. It's a sort of offset. Yes, I'm being really cynical.
Speaker 2:No, no, I think that's true and I think also, for example, you might get somebody who wants to sponsor a huge sporting event. They approach a big corporate and say we want you to headline sponsor this big corporate event and you might find that the CEO is a particular fan of that sport and that's the reason, and that's the reason that they're giving.
Speaker 1:It's not necessarily the whole company.
Speaker 2:But the person who makes the decision said well, actually I love rugby, I love tennis, I love golf, and then that's where they throw the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, but if we're going back to you know how you ask for money. In my experience and I think all the stats and all the surveys bear this out is its personal experience, just like you talked about robin. The fact that you went to a grammar school and they're going to come to you in later life as an alumni and say, well, you give to this sports hall. It makes it much more likely. So what you have to do is a lot of research before you get to the prospect. I'm going back to this. You've got to create the connection. So if you're raising money for a hospital, you should try and find out if they've had some sort of hospitalization experience at that hospital, or maybe they've been touched by something in their lives. Find out what that is and then they're more likely to give to that particular charitable cause.
Speaker 1:I would also say we're making it sound like there's one single approach. There's many, many different ways that you can approach and that you can ask for money. Now we're making it sound like it's just you're sitting in front of the person and you're going to ask. You're going into a cold meeting face-to-face with somebody. It's much more awkward than other circumstances.
Speaker 2:But would you ask on the first meeting.
Speaker 1:I've done that. It depends on how the meeting goes, but I'm just saying it's a lot, oh wow.
Speaker 1:I thought you'd have to build up the relationship. Well, you do usually, but it depends on how the meeting goes. See, what I'm trying to tell you is there's not one way to do this. There's not a face-to-face meeting with one individual and you get the money straight away, or you have to have six of those. Actually, it depends on who you're talking to. It depends on the cause that you're raising the money for. It depends on the business that you're raising the money for. You might have to bring them on a journey. It's called the stewardship time. How long is the stewardship time? Is it one meeting or is it a year? But can you think of times when we've been asked for money?
Speaker 2:Not directly actually, but there are times, like raffle tickets, for example. You know, when you have to buy a book of raffle tickets. The most annoying thing about raffle tickets for me is you have to buy a book of them normally and you have to fill it in. Fill every single one in. It'd be quite nice just to be able to put your telephone number in one instead of doing all ten. Anyway, have you ever won a raffle ticket?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no.
Speaker 2:Have you? I have. Once, when I was 14, I won a Sonny Walkman. You're dating yourself, I'm dating myself. But listen, I was very proud to win a Sony Walkman and I thought raffle tickets were a great idea. I'll always buy raffle tickets, I'll always win. It's the only time I've ever won since, but I still do buy raffle tickets.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't really feel like being asked for money, but actually it is. So that's in the small way. On the bigger way, it doesn't happen so often now, but we used to get asked to those big dinners. Do you remember where you have to buy a ticket for the table? So they would say do you want to come to this dinner Trying to raise money for this charity? You might think the charity is a very good charity and they were quite expensive, I don't know several hundred pounds per ticket to go to this dinner. And you think, well, I'm paying several hundred pounds now for a dinner that might normally cost me 25 pounds. But then you think, think all this cost of putting on this big event is eating into a lot of the money that I'm giving. How much of the money is going to the?
Speaker 1:exactly. It's become quite unfashionable to do those events. But the flip side of this is that I go to one every year which actually is held in the same room every year in a big hotel. They choose one charity and that charity has to be a small one and a single issue charity. They choose one charity and you all get in the room, you're all in black tie and you're all dressed up and you know it's a nice event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're a fancy dinner.
Speaker 1:Then they lock the doors, they lock the doors. A big, beautiful ballroom, right, but they lock the doors. And they lock the doors until you raise a certain amount of money, wow, and they don't let you out. But they've got three or four different types of ways of asking you for the money. Once you're in there, and everybody who goes to it knows that they're going to be asked for money, so you go willingly.
Speaker 2:And I can see that collecting that energy could help actually, yeah, it helps. A bit dramatic to lock them in, but I think the collective energy might be good. But I think you're right.
Speaker 1:I think now it's changing and it's more kind of coffee mornings. It's low cost.
Speaker 2:So there's more profit going to the charity. It's rather like some charities I know a few years ago, mentioning their names, the cost of running the charity was so high publicly known because it's a public charity that if you gave them £100, £80 of that was going into running costs. So you think, well, this is not efficient. So I think if charities are transparent about how much your donation is going into running costs, then that also affects how much you give.
Speaker 1:I think, what about sponsored things, friends or friends' kids will say you know, my child's running five miles for this, for charity, yes, and will you give money? How would you advise somebody to phrase the ask?
Speaker 2:I tend to go down the problem-solution route on something like this. So I would say. Many people find this issue difficult. This charity helps them and that's why I'm doing the run.
Speaker 1:Brilliant Problem solution. That's why and would you give me money and sponsor me, whatever it is, a pound, a mile.
Speaker 2:I'm running for five miles and would you help me sponsor the other way is going to grab their attention more.
Speaker 1:You once said to me when somebody asked us for that I think they were running up Mount Kilimanjaro.
Speaker 2:You said they wanted to do that anyway.
Speaker 1:Oh, you think it has to be a hardship, do you?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, if you're asking somebody to sponsor you to do something, then they're doing it at a cost to themselves and therefore, what would you choose to do that you would consider a hardship to raise money for? Not speak for three hours. Oh yeah, that's true, I would find that very difficult. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:mine would be. Mine would be not having chocolate for a year or something. I don't know if I could. If I was raising money for Charlie, I think I probably could. I couldn't give up cheese for a year.
Speaker 2:Anyway, cheese, no, cheese no. You're right, you eat a lot of cheese. I like cheese.
Speaker 1:Okay, sidebar, listen why you would give money, what motivates you, and therefore you can craft the message on how you ask for the money. But let's now just drill down into exactly what you need to do in order to be successful, like how you can screw it up. What would you say? What do you actually?
Speaker 2:have to do. I think sometimes there's an element of urgency. And urgency is a call to action, essentially isn't it. And that's we need to act now, and a lot of charities will do that, whether it's saving water for a village or saving an extinct animal or whatever might become extinct. So there's a sense of we need your help now. It's not have a think about it and possibly get back to us in six months' time because you'll forget about it. Yes, that's true. So the call to action, I think, is one.
Speaker 1:But I think just the flip side of that is you have to remain optimistic. I think in your messaging you have to say it's urgent, but we can fix it. You have to be very optimistic, yes.
Speaker 2:The other thing is do you want to be the first to give? So say we say we're trying to raise £100,000 for this project. If they say we have no money now, but would you give us the first thousand, you think I can do, but it feels like nothing in the thousand, whereas if you say we've got 999,000, will you give us the last thousand?
Speaker 1:of course you're then going to get of course yes, but you've had to ask for that you have.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is it's easier to ask later on than it is at the beginning, sure?
Speaker 1:oh, I see, yeah, it is, but you are going to have to ask for that first thousand pounds.
Speaker 2:You are, and therefore that might be the time for the urgency. So we do have to get this project around by the end. So will you give?
Speaker 1:us now.
Speaker 2:But it does become easier, I think, when there's a momentum. That's about you being optimistic. So the way you message us at the beginning is we will raise this hundred thousand in six months. Do you want to be part of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you have to make it easy.
Speaker 2:Easy to understand or easy to give.
Speaker 1:No, I think you have to make it easy to give. Lots of people make it quite complicated to give. You know it's a US-based charity, but the funds are going to Africa, so what you have to do is you have to find a 501c3 to give the money to the US charity.
Speaker 2:And that board then will divert it into Africa.
Speaker 1:You're speaking in tongues, I know, I know, but this is fundraiser language.
Speaker 2:I think you have to make it as easy as possible. And then the other thing is which we haven't talked about is if you want to raise a certain amount of money. If you say to somebody, will you give us £20 a year for three years, is that better for some people than to say, will you give us £60? Now, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You're much more likely to get the donation if you say it would be very nice to spread it over three years. And can you give me £20 a year rather than £60 now?
Speaker 2:Once it's set up as a direct debit, you almost forget it's going out no question.
Speaker 1:All fundraisers know that If you get a direct debit you're very likely to continue to get the money. But a really good fundraiser, once they get involved they might give me more in the second year than the 20 quid.
Speaker 2:Because they feel part of it.
Speaker 1:They feel part of it. So I would frequently do that If I had a project that was rolling over three years, what I would do is they would offer, let's say, a £5,000 donation. I'd say that's really nice, but could I spread that over three years? Because I knew I'd be in the job for three years and I knew in the second year that they would have experienced being involved with the charity I was raising money for and that they would probably give me more.
Speaker 2:So you might get more money for the charity if they spread it, which in one sense you'd think wouldn't it be better to have the money now? But actually, on the longer term basis, I can see your logic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also for much bigger charities like those big ones, save the Children, guide Dog for the Blind, cruelty to Children, those huge ones, oxfam. It's very, very important that you don't take the money and just put it in your bank account. You have to have a plan for spending it, because the very big philanthropists don't like it when you have huge reserves. They think, well, you don't need it, you haven't spent what you've already got. You know there's been recently this criticism of charities sitting on large reserves. Again, it's a very complicated subject, but when you're asking for money, it's incredibly important that under your frequently asked questions, you address that concern If there's reserves that are too high or too low.
Speaker 2:Yes, and also presumably the keeping in contact to building the long-term relationship, so that if you give some money and you get a letter from them to say your money has done this, that and the other, and next year's money will do this, that and the other, there's a warm, fuzzy feeling, so you feel good.
Speaker 1:Yes, you definitely feel good and you should stay in contact. Once you get the money, you must stay in contact and say what are those crucial?
Speaker 2:two words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you say thank you. It's extraordinary how many charities don't show gratitude. You don't have to reserve that just for this conversation about charities. You should say thank you when somebody gives you money for an investment.
Speaker 2:For anything, just say thank you Just say thank you Something. I don't know if it's the right time, but I want to ask you this, sian is. You're very good at asking for money? You always say you just have to ask, and I've watched you train some of your team. When they're fundraising Many people feel nervous about asking. It's a bit awkward to ask for money. And we talked a little about the British Reserve and things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so can you give anyone any help about? You don't have to be embarrassed about asking for money. You don't, because, first of all, you're not asking them to give it to you for your own personal gain. You're asking them to give it to a cause that, hopefully, you feel strongly about. My point being is that you can't raise money and ask for money for something that you don't personally feel strongly about.
Speaker 2:So they get your buy-in, yeah. So what? Hopefully?
Speaker 1:you're doing is asking for money for them to support a cause that you feel strongly about and that you have no qualms yourself about presenting to them. So I've never seen it as awkward, right, because I think if you've created the connection that we talked about earlier, the ask is easy, and normally I get what's called a buy signal, and that's the same in business as it is in charity. Somebody will say to you well, what would you like me to do? Or how can I help? Yes, or what are the next steps? Or how do I make the investment, and those are all buy signals. So at that point you're in.
Speaker 1:The only time I've ever seen it go wrong is when someone hasn't read the room very well. Whether that's a gala dinner or a coffee morning, or whether it's a one-to-one meeting, they haven't read the room very well. And, robin, you talk about that all the time. Be really aware of the psychology of what's happening in the room and if you see the person you're pitching to go cold, don't ask, because there's no chance of getting the money. They've already decided five minutes ago for some reason, and I watched that happen recently at a small dinner when at the end of the dinner, someone at the table said right, everybody, thank you for coming and you should all join our founders group at ten thousand pounds each. When I could see at the dinner there were two people who were completely disengaged right, and it left a really bad taste once they've said no.
Speaker 1:In their minds they've said no, probably they've said no, it's hard to turn them around and there's many more people you can ask, so don't try and turn them around. What?
Speaker 2:they shouldn't. What you're saying is they should have read the room, not asked for the money, and maybe followed up another time with individuals who felt warm to the message that was given over the dinner.
Speaker 1:Have you ever seen it going terribly wrong?
Speaker 2:Well, the worst time I have seen it going terribly wrong was at a political party fundraiser. So this was in the UK. So one of the political parties had a big dinner and it was full of donors. This is really important. So, the room was full of donors, already full of donors, already full of donors. So these are people who you know are your supporters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're converted.
Speaker 2:They're converted. So it is preaching to the converted. The leader of the party stood up and gave the wrong speech. It was the speech that you should give to floating voters, to people you want to convince, not to people who were already convinced. So the wrong speech for the audience. And he stood up and said it's vital you vote for our party. And I was sitting there thinking well, of course they're going to vote for your party because that's why they're there, and actually it was a very simple message that he needed to give to those people. So he just had to say thank you first of all, which he didn't say. Secondly, your money is going to a good cause, so they feel that they're on the right track, and then they want to be given something for their money. And so in this case, I think what he could have done is to say look, I shouldn't really tell you what happened in cabinet last week, but actually this is what happened and to give them a story.
Speaker 2:And they can use it as currency with their friends. They can say I shouldn't really tell you, but I was told. Last night the cabinet minister told me or something. So I think there's something around reading the room and understanding what the room requires. In that case it was actually basically thank you not, please vote for us. When we read the room well and we have a clear message, actually the ask is not too difficult.
Speaker 1:It's not difficult. No, I've never thought it was difficult. In fact it actually. Maybe everybody listening has an experience like this. But Robin, you've often talked about it. You just get used to hearing. No, it doesn't matter. What matters is you tried?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1:You tried, and isn't that the whole point? I mean, imagine, if you didn't try, yes, also not everyone is going to say yes.
Speaker 2:And not everyone is able to say yes, for all sorts of reasons. Yeah, exactly, and maybe they're giving it somewhere else, or maybe they don't have the funds it might be. So, therefore, I suppose if you feel hurt or slighted if someone says no, then of course you're going to be reticent. But if you're saying I'm just going to ask and what's the worst they can do? Just say no, okay. So, sian, if someone asked you for money and you want to say no, does that make you feel bad?
Speaker 1:Oh well, it might for some people, but not me. I'm very happy to say oh, you know, I've channeled my giving elsewhere. Can you just say not for me? Yes, you can, I'm not brave enough to do that.
Speaker 2:No, it takes confidence.
Speaker 1:I'm not brave enough to do that, but I'm very happy to say, oh no, my giving causes are towards these particular causes. Does it fit in? Or my investment portfolio? I'm giggling now right.
Speaker 2:Can you talk to me about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, my investment portfolio is more focused on I don't know medical health devices and the environment than it is on what you're pitching. Yes, but thank you very much. What I often do when I say no is I say if I can think of anybody in my circle of friends who's interested in this cause, I'll certainly mention it.
Speaker 2:Right, that's the answer of doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you're trying to help, but you don't want to give them money. Yeah, so, robin, we've talked around this subject quite a lot and I think we've looked into the dark corners, the bright corners, the awkward corners, the clear waters. So how would you sum it up if I was going to say to you how do you ask for money?
Speaker 2:I would say, from what you said and watching you over the years, is don't be afraid to ask. First of all, be optimistic. The project will happen. If you want to be part of it, that's great. And be clear about how the money is going to be spent, and then also be clear about who is going to be spending it. So you're building trust. They're a great group of people. They will achieve this. Do you want to be part of it? And I'm not afraid to ask you. Perfect pitch. That is. That is where we're finishing, because that is the perfect pitch. Just before we go, I have to ask you for some money. Sean, you couldn't give me 100 pounds, could you?