The Art of Communication
This fun podcast series is for anyone who has to deliver a message, tell a story or speak to another human being. Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen cover all aspects of how you connect with everyone you meet - whether you're giving a speech, running a meeting or simply talking with friends. Our Communication Experts series includes experts in many different fields: TV and radio presenters, politicians, auctioneers, writers, professors, lawyers, film directors, actors, art dealers, photographers and designers etc. Everyone will be an expert in communicating with their audience in their particular medium. Robin Kermode, is an actor, best-selling author, leading Communication Coach, popular keynote speaker, body language expert and media commentator. For more information visit: www.robinkermode.com
The Art of Communication
The Power of Saying 'Thank You'
The Power of Saying 'Thank You'.
Discover how the simple act of saying 'Thank you' can radiate through your day, influencing not just your mood but those around you. We explore how this simple act can shape relationships, professional dynamics, and even the way we interact with technology.
We discuss the mindset of gratitude, from the joy of beginning each day with a grateful heart to how the unexpected impact of appreciation in leadership can rejuvenate spirits and strengthen bonds. We celebrate and revere the compelling power of those two little words.
Join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for another episode of this fun podcast.
Hello, it's Sian Hansen here with Robin Kermode. Hello, and this podcast is about the power of thank you and how important it is to say thank you.
Speaker 2:Always say thank you Always?
Speaker 1:Do you think it's always?
Speaker 2:Every single time.
Speaker 1:Really, is it about gratitude then?
Speaker 2:It's about gratitude and making somebody feel that their action or their words have been heard and you're saying I appreciate what you've done for me and thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think gratitude is actually really important. You know you can thank yourself because you know you're supposed to say what you're really grateful for at the end of every day, well, or in the start of the day actually.
Speaker 2:There's a great thing that I used to do. I have to say I don't do it now as much as I should do. But I think waking up in the morning and before you get out of bed, just saying and I used to do this genuinely probably five years ago every day was I'd lie there in bed as you first wake up and you say, right, three things that I'm grateful for, and you say thank you for my health, you know, thank you for my marriage, thank you for my food. Or, you know, lifestyle is whatever it is, or your work, or whatever your sense of fun, your sport, whatever. And I think just starting the day with a sense of personal gratitude and thank you is also helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I think that's great. So you're saying thank you right out front.
Speaker 2:It's the mindset, the beginning of your day, the mindset of thank you.
Speaker 1:I think it's really important, and you mentioned something there about the appreciation too. It is about the appreciation because somebody's made an effort for you. You know they've done something for you and they've really made an effort, and we're all so busy. It's taken some time and effort.
Speaker 2:It has, and sometimes it's transactional. So sometimes of course, you're paying somebody to do something for you, so a waiter will bring you food or that kind of thing. But, then you know, you can still say thank you for doing it.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can do it in a nice way, even if you're paying them to do it, so are you saying we should do it all the time? I think it's the mindset. So you're saying really, so you're saying we should do it all the time, no matter how big or small.
Speaker 2:And also yes, I agree, yes, I do. And also no matter whether we're in a good mood or a bad mood, because often we do it when we're in a good mood.
Speaker 1:Oh, and if you're in a bit of a grump, you might forget to say thank you.
Speaker 2:You forget to do it.
Speaker 1:You can't be bothered, you're a bit angry with the world or whatever, but actually those are the days probably we should say thank you more oh, definitely, yeah, like you say it probably, you know, with your mantra in the morning, it probably puts you in a bit of a bit of a better frame of mind if you say thank you for something and you pause for a moment and appreciate somebody else yes, and I think in other podcasts we have talked about this.
Speaker 2:You know, I had a friend who said he could never turn a bad day around. He said you know, on a good day life is fine, and the bus arrives on time and everything's great and life is good.
Speaker 2:But on the days when nothing quite works, he said, I don't seem to be able to turn it around and I said but those are the days that when that happens if it happens to me on a wheel that bad days, when you have a bad day, you just reach out to somebody else, you smile at someone on the street and suddenly they smile back and you go. That's all right. So, and I think the same thing can be true of saying thank you.
Speaker 1:It's a mindset of self-gratitude actually and interesting, just bringing in ai here, all those apps that you can use now to help you. You know the ai apps, um, I've been taught when I'm interacting with them that I should always say thank you to them even though, even though it's a machine, it's machine learning.
Speaker 1:Yes, um, they're learning that, please, and thank you to them even though, even though it's a machine, it's machine learning yes um, they're learning that, please, and thank you is important, is important, and if I say thank you, um, the machine is learning that you know that humans show gratitude and I would say thank you at the end of my yes, but it's a good habit anyway I think so, so even to a machine so just um deepening that conversation a little bit, we're talking about when and should and everything, but I think it's just basically polite.
Speaker 2:Well, it is. And I was thinking when do we learn these things? When do we learn to say thank you? And I suppose it's parenting, really isn't it? And we learn it within society. Cultures of course vary, don't they, the amount of times they say thank you, really isn't it? And we learn it within society. Cultures of course vary, don't they, the amount of times they say thank you. I think maybe in the UK we might be accused of being a little bit over thank you and a bit over apologetic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do say thank you a lot.
Speaker 2:So I think sometimes we can say thank you once and mean it, rather than thank you 100 times and not mean it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair. I think that's fair Interesting. You said it's parenting. It might even be grandparenting, actually, or it might be an older mentor or something like that, because in a busy life with busy parents and young kids and whatever, it might be hard to just keep doing it. You might learn it at school. Actually, did you learn to write thank you letters at school?
Speaker 2:We had to write thank you letters from school but we were taught always if it was a thank you letter say for a birthday present, that sort of thing we would write you know dear your parents, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Oh, handwriting. Here You'd get a card Properly handwritten. We'll come on to handwriting later.
Speaker 2:But, yes, but handwritten, and we were taught not to use the word thank you in the card. What don't write thank you? No, don't actually write thank you. That's the obvious thing to do, which is, you know, dear Auntie Jane, thank you for the lovely socks. Yeah, it's the obvious thing to do, but much nicer. Dear Auntie Jane, I love the socks. It's an unusual colour. Maybe you hate that.
Speaker 1:You know it's a what would you say a bold choice. It's a bold choice.
Speaker 2:It's a confident colour which is an English way of going. I'm not quite sure I like it, but I think so much. As I said, dear Auntie Jane, I love the socks. They're the most comfortable socks I've ever had. I hope to see you soon. It's much better than saying thank you for the socks. It's less obvious.
Speaker 1:That is really interesting, but you are still saying thank you. You are still saying thank you, so we'll get on to that, but there's many ways of saying thank you clearly Many ways yes. In English anyway, there's many ways of saying thank you?
Speaker 2:Well, there are many ways in language. In language you can say cheers, I appreciate it. Yeah, you're a lifesaver.
Speaker 1:I mean there's lots of phrases that.
Speaker 2:Thanks, well, that can sound a bit.
Speaker 1:Throwaway.
Speaker 2:Yes, it doesn't sound like you mean it really yeah.
Speaker 1:And I like thank you, I like, thank you. I think that's really Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Well, that was going to come on to thank you very much. Because when you make speeches, if you want to get a round of applause at the end of a speech most people. So what they do is if I'm helping them write their speech, they write the speech. And then I said OK, you get to the end and the audience have to know now you've finished. So you have to in some way tell them that you've finished, and one of the simple ways is to say thank you. So they say so, that's the end of my speech, thank you. And then you're saying to the audience the curtain has come down, the speech is finished, now you enough. The rhythm of thank you doesn't work, but the rhythm of thank you very much does so if you finish your speech.
Speaker 2:So and and that's why I love my brother, thank you. You don't really want to clap, but, and that's why I love my brother, thank you very much. And everyone starts clapping. It's like it's like pavlov's dogs so I think thank you very much is more heartfelt than thank you thanks. Thank you sounds a bit like thanks.
Speaker 1:Did I just interrupt you.
Speaker 2:No, it's fine. Okay, it doesn't matter, it's fine.
Speaker 1:So it might be the same in lyrics in a song, because I can hear what you're saying, but it does. It's much more lyrical to say thank you very much.
Speaker 2:There's a rhythm, there's a rhythm to it.
Speaker 1:And there's this song. Where is it? Thank you for being a friend. So yeah, it might be just more lyrical to just to do that. But then of course there's also the formal things. You know where it's not actually thank you. But you know, someone said to me the other day I'm much obliged well, I'm much obliged.
Speaker 2:Well, it's, it's a slightly old-fashioned term now, but it, but it still works or people can say to you I couldn't have done it without you.
Speaker 1:Or people say I really appreciate your support. We know what's behind it, don't?
Speaker 2:we. We know what's behind it. I had one once where somebody said I have to give credit where credit is due. Oh, no, no, Now that's not candid Well, I thought that was a bit dumb, a sort of double entendre on that, because if they were saying you know, you really helped me, robin, that was great. That's really clean, isn't it? But I have to give credit. It's like you have to or you want to.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, no, I think the have to does it. In my childhood. I remember saying thanks a bunch.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a Canadian thing. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe, yeah, north American, or also. Thanks a million.
Speaker 2:Thanks a ton, thanks a million, thanks a ton, thanks a ton. More North Americans in London here.
Speaker 1:Thanks a ton, or I suppose even you're the best you know was written on a card quite a lot. So yeah, it can be. You know, in many different ways. So if you don't actually hear the words thank you, it can still mean thank you. Yeah, so don't think you haven't got a thank you, if you see what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, but don't think you haven't got a thank you. If you see what I mean, yes, but then again it comes back to many things we've talked about on these other podcast episodes is about intention. So if somebody's intention is actually to say thank you by saying you're the best and they mean you're the best and I'm saying thank you for being the best then that's what we hear. But if their intention is something different. We don't hear it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and actually good to point out the nuance, because every once in a while a thank you can be slightly backhanded. The reason I say this is sometimes they can say it sarcastically, they can go, oh well thank you, and you know that doesn't.
Speaker 2:Can I just say we've all done it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that doesn't mean thank you, does it?
Speaker 2:No, no, it doesn't that means you can hit the high road this means yes, it's reluctantly I'm saying thank you, because I have to yeah, or you're forced to say thank you.
Speaker 1:Have you ever been forced to say thank you? Is there ever a time where I've been forced to say sorry.
Speaker 2:No, I know, let's not go into that now.
Speaker 1:I know that, but but have you ever been forced to say thank you when you really didn't like it? Like did your parents ever say like you had to eat the apple crumble I know he doesn't like apple crumble and you had to say thank you even though you hated every mouthful?
Speaker 2:Well, do you know, the awful thing is, I'm of the generation where there was still caning at school.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, robin, yes.
Speaker 2:No, yes, and you had to thank the headmaster. No caning you. You did no, you had to say you had to shake no, so they would can't, they would, they would cane you. You then had to shake the headmaster's hand and say thank you oh, I'm so shocked. And it's shocking, isn't it? I mean also what's extraordinary is that that happened um within my lifetime. I think that stopped. I'm not sure of the exact date, but I think it was um. I think it was even as late as the late 60s, early 70s.
Speaker 1:Wow, to be forced to say thank you in that circumstance, my mind is actually just can't compute.
Speaker 2:I know I think it does your head in. I don't think it's very helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, listen, I think we probably decided that saying thank you is like really important. But when I talk to my friends about this and I say oh, listen, you know how do you feel about thank you and do you think people say it enough? They get all upset. And I don't know if you have that, robin, but they get it all upset and they say people don't say thank you enough anymore.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's different now. Yeah, but is that a generational thing? I don't know if you have that, Robin, but they get it all upset and they say people don't say thank you enough anymore and it's different now. Yeah, but is that a generational thing?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Or is it a cultural thing, you know? Has something happened? I don't know. Everybody likes to blame social media, but is there some reason that we don't say thank you as much anymore, or we say thank you in a different way.
Speaker 2:We say thank you in I was brought up to write thank you cards and to hand write thank you cards, and many of our listeners will be exactly the same. And so you have maybe a Christmas present or a birthday present or whatever the present is, and then you have to make a list of who gave you the presents maybe your five presents and you had to write five cards to the five people who gave you the presents your aunt for the socks or whatever it was and you got used to, you were taught to do that, probably from quite an early age, and if I, you know, if we're taken out for dinner as a couple, we go out for dinner with somebody at their house, we would always write a handwritten card. Yes, the next and this is, I think, also important the next day.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it's within two weeks.
Speaker 2:I was taught within two weeks. Well, you see, I think it should be done the next day, right, but that's Right. Okay, heartfelt than a text. But if you ask our children's generation, if you ask people in their early, so, if you ask younger people, they will say but I sent a text, I sent a text, what's the problem? And it was a really heartfelt text, full of emojis, full of emojis. But the other way of course you can do is you can leave a voicemail on a text, so on WhatsApp and all these other apps. So I tend to do that. If, for some reason, I can't get a card in the post or I'm traveling or whatever, I will probably leave a voicemail on the app and it would be me saying, with my nuance of my voice, saying you know, that was a really great evening and what wonderful people we had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it has more meaning.
Speaker 2:So it has more meaning than just a text going thanks for dinner last night, when they've gone to a great effort to put a party together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that seems right, we do.
Speaker 2:But this is all about nuance, really, isn't it what?
Speaker 1:about email.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a bit businessy.
Speaker 1:I think it's a bit businessy, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But in a corporate way you can.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, Okay, so if we move to a corporate environment, an email is perfectly fine. It would be very strange actually to have a typed letter in the post or something to say thank you.
Speaker 2:Although I often handwrite to clients, Do you yes to say thank you very much, particularly if they've introduced me to somebody? Oh, good point, so maybe I have a client and they've recommended me to another potential client and then they become a client of mine, I would write to the first one, probably a handwritten letter, and maybe even send them a box of chocolates or something or whatever Would you or send them a book. Maybe that they might enjoy.
Speaker 1:Oh well, that's wonderful. I mean, if somebody introduces me to somebody who turns out to be very helpful or I learned something from, or whatever, I will definitely write to the person who made the introduction and say thank you, yes, and not leave them in limbo about whether I even picked it up, yes, and ran with it. I think that's very impolite. If you go to the effort of introducing somebody and you're also sharing your network.
Speaker 2:I agree, but so what I do is I probably write a handwritten card or maybe phone them to say thank you, and then I will follow it up with an email. Crumbs, no, well, I follow it up with an email, probably once I've started working with them. In other words, so thank you for the introduction, and then, once they've turned into a client, I then say by the way, it has turned into a client.
Speaker 1:And you did say earlier that maybe the English overthink. But actually what you're talking about just sounds just polite, but it's only two, it's only two thank yous.
Speaker 2:They're two different thank yous. One is an email and one is a handwritten or a voicemail, but I've never had anyone look at me as if, well, you're going a bit over the top. I think people like being told thank you Like waiters in restaurants I always say thank you to somebody for bringing up it.
Speaker 1:Why would you not? Actually, you can really judge somebody's character if they don't, if they're not polite to waiters and waitresses, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:I think you can really judge someone's character if they're not polite to the waiting staff. I think you can really judge someone's character if they're not polite to the waiting staff I genuinely you're a member of. You know one of these I don't know writers or actor clubs or whatever in London and you read to me once the rules oh, yeah, yeah, what were the club rules? Yeah, what were the club rules? The club rules.
Speaker 2:These were frequently asked questions, or these were questions sometimes asked by new members, and one of the questions was how should we treat the staff? And I think what was behind that was about tipping actually, but anyway, the question was how do we treat staff? And their answer was better than your friends and it's absolutely right, absolutely perfect.
Speaker 1:Absolutely right, absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2:I had a client during lockdown who hired a new CFO on Zoom or on Teams or whatever online and the person got the job. After lockdown they were able to go out for dinner and he realized that over the dinner the man he'd hired as a CFO was rude to the staff the waiting staff and he said I never would have hired him had I not you know. So I never would have hired him if I had been able to meet him in person before.
Speaker 2:Because he didn't say thank you he didn't say thank you, and so you can't always tell on a video call whether somebody has that mindset of saying thank you, but you certainly see it when they're in person.
Speaker 1:Well, you see, you've pointed out something even more important. In our culture, anyway, it's a social norm, there's an expectation that you say thank you, and if you don't in any, in the smallest and the biggest situations, and if you don't, it can lead to a misunderstanding and it can lead to well, somebody could think you're rude.
Speaker 2:Well, absolutely. I was on the Tube in London the other day and somebody offered me their seat.
Speaker 2:Now we laugh because I'm thinking yes, but I know my age, but I'm hoping I don't look my age and therefore I'm thinking how dare you offer me a seat? But actually, of course, somebody's being very kind and saying would you like a seat the only thing to do, actually, of course somebody's being very kind and saying would you like a seat the only thing to do is to say that's very kind of you, thank you thank you exactly.
Speaker 1:You take it well. That brings up another point, because when so you're saying, when do you say thank you? Okay, we're talking about the obvious things like an introduction, or you know somebody's taking you out for lunch or a present or yeah, or somebody's done something nice for you, but I also think you can say thank you when someone asks for your advice.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 2:think, yes, totally. One of the nicest letters I have is from my grandfather, who I, as you know, adored, and he wrote his biography for the family.
Speaker 2:Really, it wasn't ever to be published, but he did it for the family his story of his life, thing which is often people do when they get elderly, and it was lovely to do, but I helped him record it, so he made some notes and then we recorded the whole thing, so we now have his voice on tape and it's now on CD Really nice, so it's now digital. And when we finished it he sent me the nicest handwritten card saying thank you for your help and thank you for wanting to do this with me.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it was the fact.
Speaker 2:So he could just have said he could have been proud that he'd written a book on his own, but actually all around that he'd recorded it on his own. But the fact that he made me feel special by saying thank you for thank you because I encouraged him to do it in a way. So he's saying thank you for encouraging me to do this. Yeah, and I wouldn't have done it without you and it made me feel really special.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really lovely. That is so lovely, robin, and I do it when people are always asking me advice about a career and getting on the job ladder and you're very good, sienna.
Speaker 1:Mentoring no, particularly young, young women, no, you're brilliant well, that's kind of you to say, but what it was really is. I feel so honored when a young person comes to me and says you know, can you give me some advice about this? And I say, oh well, thank you for thinking of me. Um, I'll do my best, you know, because you put a position where you hope you can help, especially because it's hard making your way but it's also flattering, isn't it?
Speaker 2:the fact that a young person comes to you and says can you help me? You could have gone to a million people, but they ask you and we should say thank you for your confidence in me.
Speaker 1:so when are the other times when you say, if you're in a position of leadership, thank you for your confidence in me? I think so Okay. So when are the other times when you say you know, like, if you're in a position of leadership, when do you say thank you?
Speaker 2:Sorry, just give me a second, we're out of time. Compliment, advice or help. Don't say but Advice or help, I'm not sure Explain the compliment to me. I can cut this out, doesn't?
Speaker 1:matter. Do you remember Somebody gives you a compliment and you say thank you With no? But oh right, yes, okay, yes, yes, the next one you can say is when they give you advice or help, but what if it's unsolicited? Do you say thank you? Okay, but let's start with this so my lead-in was so let's say, you're in a position of leadership. What would you say are the circumstances? What would you say are the circumstances under which you say thank you?
Speaker 2:generally, you say thank you when anyone's offered you something that's a gift. It could be a gift, it could be a vocal gift, it could be an actual present or it could be a compliment. Now, for example, I saw a CEO once give a speech. He came off and so I was working with this CEO and she came off the platform and one of her staff, one of her team, came up to her and said that was really really good. And she said was it okay and I should have done this and I should have done that? And afterwards I said you should just say thank you really.
Speaker 1:Just say thank you, no, but no buts, no apologies.
Speaker 2:And it's a bit like you know, I'm sure, if you meet a famous movie star on the street and you say I love your films, they're wonderful.
Speaker 1:There's only one thing for the star to say that's very kind, thank you. Yes, I don't overanalyze it to just say thank you. And if you're a young woman and someone approaches you and says you know, um you look really well today and um you look really happy or love what you're wearing, you just say thank you, yes, you just say thank you, accept the compliment is what um well, except because actually sometimes it's quite difficult to give a compliment.
Speaker 2:people feel difficult to give a compliment, people feel embarrassed to give a compliment. So make it easy for them and just say thank you.
Speaker 1:Now, robin, you just said when someone gives you advice or help. But I just want to throw a twister in here because I can be doing something. Let's say I'm at the gym or something and somebody gives me unsolicited advice that I didn't want.
Speaker 2:Oh, so another person in the gym.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Who's not a trainer or anything.
Speaker 1:No, Like you should use this equipment differently.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'd be furious if that was what you said.
Speaker 1:No, but it does happen. Where I get, don't you ever get unsolicited advice, unsolicited help?
Speaker 2:Not very often actually, but I can see the situation, how it can happen, but I can see the situation, how it can happen easily, so do you say thank you. Well, the temptation would be to say thank you sarcastically Mind your own business. Well, I.
Speaker 1:Actually, I've changed it in my head and I've said to myself in my head they're just trying to be kind, and so I just say thank you very much for your advice.
Speaker 2:And I do it this way for a reason. But thank you, yeah, but even then should you have to justify why you're doing it for that reason.
Speaker 1:No, I know you shouldn't really, I know I don't think so.
Speaker 2:We should just say oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:thank you, oh, that's interesting. Thank you, that's interesting. Thank you, yes, I'll think about that for next time I Carry on Carry on and I'm also I mean it may be pushing it a bit, but I often say thank you instead of apologizing, and I don't know what you think of that but let's say I've kept somebody waiting and I say, oh, I'm really sorry I'm late. Or I'm really sorry I'm late in responding to your email. No-transcript, which says the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, but it's a nicer way of saying it, actually isn't it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think so. Yes, but I apologize too much, so I'm trying to stop myself apologizing all the time.
Speaker 2:Yes, although I mean, I have a thing about lateness, as you know, and so I think if you've arranged to meet somebody at 10 o'clock for a coffee and you turn up at half past 10, you've actually kept them waiting. You've wasted half an hour of their day, in a way, so I think. But again, you could turn up and say thank you so much for waiting. I apologize for being late, but you are actually. You can include the thank you in that. Okay, as you said, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I'll try that, but I just, you know, that's what I wanted to see if I could change in my life. So you know, just wrapping this all up, robin, we've talked about a lot about the importance, you know, gratitude it's polite, it's a social norm. I think it's really important that you talked about the difference between email, letter, text, phone calls, voicemails, texture and you know, and all those things that we do in life and the circumstances under which we feel gratitude and we want to say thank you. But is there some way you can wrap it all up? Is it like in one thought piece that we can just go away with, especially as it comes, and especially as it relates to communication between one human being and another?
Speaker 2:Well, I think we've talked about the obvious ones. In a sense, I think there's something we can do which is to do something for someone else, which is not actually to say thank you, but to do something.
Speaker 1:So, robin, we've talked a lot about this topic. We've talked about, should you, how you do it. Text email letter voicemail voicemail, is it polite? The social norms of it, and so have you got something to just like wrap it all up. And you know, one big takeaway for us about the topic, particularly as it relates to communication.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, if we think of saying thank you and all that entails, if we think of that as being the oil in an engine, so if you have that right oil in an engine, the metal parts don't rub and everything goes smoothly. Communication goes more smoothly if we listen to people and if we say thank you. Yeah, those are the two really big things about communication.
Speaker 2:There's obviously clarity and all sorts of other things involved, but but essentially, if we listen to other people, make them feel special and say thank you, making them feel special, yeah, it's really the oil. So I think think of saying thank you as a habit and think of it as just oiling the engine of communication.
Speaker 1:That's fabulous. Thank you so much. I learned, as ever.
Speaker 2:I always learn so much Well interestingly enough, you say you learn so much but you're very good at saying thank you. But I think the thing is I'm pretty good at saying thank you on a good day, but I think what I've learned no, oh, but I think what I've learned? No, no, no, now you're going back into something we've already talked about, so We've had all in the engine and that was nice Okay and I was going to say something.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Well, robin, thank you so much. You know, I never want our podcast to end because you know, I'm always learning so much from you. Even though we've known each other for decades, I'm still learning so much from you. Even though we've known each other for decades, I'm still learning so much.
Speaker 2:But I learn a lot, interestingly enough, by saying it out loud. It's not that I necessarily know that, because I don't have all the answers either, like nobody does, but I think sometimes by discussing things, you clarify in your own mind what's important, exactly a very heartfelt thank you. Well, I'm going to say thank you very much. How's that? Yeah, yeah, that was nice, that was really nice, darling Stop.
Speaker 1:But, robin, are there only certain times? Are there only certain instances?
Speaker 2:when you're a leader, you know a CEO where you say thank you I think one of the things I've learned most from watching really good ceos is they say thank you, they appreciate they, they say thank you, they make their appreciation known and felt by their team when it's unexpected.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:So not the obvious times.
Speaker 1:Have you got an example?
Speaker 2:Well, it's very easy. For example, you get a contract signed and everyone in the old days, everyone would get sent a pen or whatever. There'd be some sort of celebration. You think, well, that's obvious, because we know that. But actually sometimes, working on a long project, I had a client who was working on a long project and every few months she made a point of varying it but of writing a handwritten card, sending it to their home, saying I know you're working long hours, but I really appreciate it Little things like that. So it's unexpected that your boss will send you a handwritten letter to your home. What they tend to do is say here's a quick email. They dash off and go appreciate your hard work, and you think you don't really appreciate it so she would do that.
Speaker 2:she would unexpectedly take people out, not not when they, you know, not when they were expecting it, and and I think there's something, um, I think trying to sort of and seeing what's happening with your team and realizing that actually there's a bit of a bit of tension building and you can alleviate that tension on the unexpected times, and it has more power in effect. On it has more power in effect on unexpected times.
Speaker 1:Do you know, I never thought about that. A surprise thank you might have more weight and meaning. A surprise, just where you didn't think you were going to get one.
Speaker 2:But again, that's the same in life, isn't it? You know, a surprise compliment from somebody, isn't that something Like somebody, a colleague, says to you do you know what? I've always thought you were good at that, you think, really, I never knew that.
Speaker 1:And how good does that make you feel? For the rest of the day, you probably go home and tell your friends and family. You so will.