The Art of Communication

First Impressions

• Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen • Season 1 • Episode 31

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First Impressions.
How important is it for us to make a good first impression? How harshly do we judge other people on the first impression they make on us?  And is it possible to reverse a bad first impression?  

Join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for the 30th episode of this fun podcast. 


SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome to the Art of Communication Podcast with me, Robin Kermode. Have you ever wished you could become a confident speaker or presenter? Then why not join my online masterclass? Speak so your audience will listen. In 10 easy to follow modules, you can become a confident and authentic speaker. For more information, visit RobinKermode.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello, it's Jan Hansen, and it's wonderful to be here with Robin Kermode. Hello. Today we're talking about first impressions. What situations, Robin, do we create a first impression?

SPEAKER_01:

We make first impressions all the time, of course. So we go for a job interview, we turn up at a reception, the way they answer the telephone, a flyer comes through the door is an impression, what somebody's wearing, a million things. It's the smile. It's a hello, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So let's go right back to basics. What are the elements that make up a first impression?

SPEAKER_01:

In our very first podcast, we looked at instant connection. And instant connection really is around obviously how we connect with other human beings. And a first impression, maybe we are trying to connect, maybe we're not trying to connect. We might be trying to frighten the other person. Well, maybe if you're walking down a dark alleyway and you feel intimidated, maybe the first impression you want to give is that I'm strong here. We're not necessarily trying to connect. But assuming in most situations we will be trying to connect. It's right back to the old thing about intention. So what is the intention when we meet somebody? The most obvious scenario would be somebody working in a store, you walk into their space, their store, and they say, Good morning. Hello, can I help you? That kind of thing. So the first impression they're trying to make is you're welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So what we're really talking about here is a balance of am I going into someone else's space, am I trying to make an impression, or is it the other way around?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think it's around who is responsible for that first impression.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not up for the customer to create a lovely, safe, cozy atmosphere.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's up to the salesperson.

SPEAKER_01:

It's up to the salesperson or the receptionist or whoever to do that. Even on a telephone call, if you phone up, I don't know, the local utility company or whatever it might be to discuss your bill, if they answer the phone, hello, or an exhale, you get the feeling that they're exhausted and they don't really value you. And so the first impression, if we want to connect, it's around making somebody feel welcome, making somebody feel valued.

SPEAKER_00:

Now let's split this up because you just mentioned on a telephone, and I had in my head that we were talking about when we see another person, but in fact, you're right. It could be with no visual cues, it could be just on the telephone. Well, it could be an email. Or no, it could be an email too, of course. Okay, so why don't we just take those, the ones where there's no visual cues, the person answering the phone at a company? What would you suggest to make a good first impression?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was working, for example, with one client, and he said, I'd like you to spend one hour with every single person in my organization. And I said, Okay, that's a great idea in terms of their communication. And I said, What about the people on reception? Do you want me to work with them as well? And he said, Is that necessary? And I said, But that is the very, very first impression that clients will ever get. Absolutely, yeah. So I spent an hour with the team who were on reception. And I said, What is your biggest challenge? And they said, Well, we're supposed to be gatekeepers, not to put the phone call through to the boss every single time. And so they said, How do we do that? And I said, Well, the most important thing is you have to make the person feel valued. So they say, I need to speak to the boss. If you say who's calling, you think, Oh, you're only going to put me through if I'm important.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We want everyone to feel important. So somebody rings up and says, I want to speak to the boss, and you say, Of course. May I ask what it's about? The initial thing is, of course. If you give the impression that actually everybody's valued until they're not, it's a much better way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

I can completely see that. And I think you have to answer the phone within a few rings, because I imagine the other person at the end of the phone could try and be as nice and as sweet as pie. But if you've been hanging on for 15 minutes and then finally somebody answers, you're already a bit grouchy, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01:

You are. So I'm guessing here, I would say within 10 seconds you want to answer.

SPEAKER_00:

I think you want to. And then you get the answering machine, which says, Your call is valuable to us. Please hang on.

SPEAKER_01:

But if you have a human being saying the same words, like they mean the words, so even if they say, I'm really sorry we can't come to the phone right now, do leave a message and we will call you straight back.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

You think, oh, I I think they might do that.

SPEAKER_00:

It's tone of voice. Tone of voice, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to somebody who runs a call center.

SPEAKER_01:

So they're cold calling, essentially. That's a hard job.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a very hard job. But I also heard that if you want banks of people to be answering customers' calls, apparently the best and the warmest accents and the ones that make you feel special are Scottish and Australian.

SPEAKER_01:

That's really interesting, isn't it? I know in the UK there are certain accents that are much more friendly than others. I mean, a Scottish one definitely I know Jordi is used a lot. And northern actually can be very friendly and very authentic. I think that's very authentic, yeah. Can I just say, whatever your accent is probably a wonderful accent. I'm not judging accents. And of course I have no accent, I should say.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, but you're probably wanting to listen to an accent that you're familiar with. So if you're in the United States or if you're in India, you probably want to hear an accent you're familiar with.

SPEAKER_01:

I have a lot of French clients. Yes. And French clients always say, Well, I wish we could speak like you. And I always say, No, but I'd be far sexier if I had a French accent. You know, I as a man, when I was younger, I thought if I had an Italian or French accent, I'd be much cooler.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely the right point. If you get somebody answering the phone in a different accent to you, the first impression might be a really good one because you're so curious.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so you mentioned also a first impression could be an email, and that made me think of a letter as well. What would you say in the written word that you need to create a first impression?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm of the generation where handwriting was important. And so I think if you're going to send somebody an invitation and you handwrite it, you feel so much more valued if somebody's handwritten something.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Robin, it's a sales technique now. If you want to get somebody to open the envelope, you handwrite it now.

SPEAKER_01:

Aaron Ross Powell I have some clients who, when they're sending out all their catalogues, everybody has to do a batch of hundreds envelopes or whatever it is. So they all go out. And sometimes they even have a little letter in saying, Dear Sianne, we thought you might like to see our latest catalogue and hope all's well. Very best wishes from Jane at the company or David at the company.

SPEAKER_00:

So would you do that in an email too? Would you be that personal?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, interesting. On my emails, as you know, I've always used a fountain pen with a wine red ink. I've always had that colour. So if anyone receives a letter from me or a birthday card or something, they know it's me just from the envelope because of my handwriting and the colour of the ink. So I've scanned that and I have that, an image on the bottom of my email. I've type the email, but you see a bit of my handwriting on it. There's something very personal about receiving a signature.

SPEAKER_00:

So, first impression, you're sending an email. Do you put dear so-and-so? Do you put hi or do you put hello? I mean, a lot of people say on email you shouldn't make it like a letter. You shouldn't say dear Estelle kind regards yours since it shouldn't look like that. It should be more informal because it's an email.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it purely depends on how well you know the person.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a cop-out, Robin.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, it's not a cop-out. It depends on what you're trying to achieve.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

If it's essentially a cold call email, I think hi might be appropriate in some circumstances. It depends what you're selling. It depends what you're offering.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I, for example, don't want to have hi, Robin, from my doctor. Do I want hi from my airline? I think I still want dear Mr. Kermode or dear Robin. I'm so sorry your flight is delayed. Rather than Hi Robin, thought you'd like to know your flight's delayed.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Sometimes they say, Hi, is that Sianne? I say, yes. And they say, Can I call you Sian? And I think, Ashley.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you already have.

SPEAKER_00:

So this podcast is really about when you meet somebody face to face. And you need to create For the first time. For the first time. And you need to create this brilliant first impression because we know from psychology, actually, we know it's a lasting impression. Once you make that first impression, it's very difficult to shift.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you ever made or thought you made a bad impression?

SPEAKER_01:

Do you know I made a really bad impression? On the very first interview I did as a coach. You know, when you're inexperienced, you try to pig yourself up a bit because you want to give the impression that you know what you're talking about, which hopefully I do. But I hadn't had much experience in those days. And I did the classic thing of talking too much. Did you? I went on and on and on. I wanted the ground to open up. And I want to say, Robin, just stop talking. This is 20 years ago, it's going back a long way now. And I came out thinking, I just blew that. And the first impression I gave them was not a good one.

SPEAKER_00:

No, everybody's gone through that. So that's a really interesting point. Can you ever reverse a poor first impression? Can you reverse it?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think you can, because sometimes you can say there were extenuating circumstances. You can say, I just had some bad news, or I had the early stages of flu and I didn't realise I had a headache or whatever. You know, you saw me in a different situation.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you do that when you know that it's slipping away from you and you need to rectify it? Do you say, actually, sorry, I am normally more cheerful than this, but something happened.

SPEAKER_01:

If you have the presence of mind to do that at the time, sometimes you have to do it three or four months later when you you know them and you say, by the way, you know that first time you met me, actually, that was going on. I didn't want to tell you at the time. And then you go, Oh, right. So maybe my first impression was a bit judgmental.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what? Some people are really good at first impressions and then prove a disappointment.

SPEAKER_01:

That is true. I had a client who was a CEO, and he was looking to hire a new CFO. And he had an interview with this man on Zoom. And then once the pandemic was over and he was able to go for dinner with this person, he saw that he was quite rude to the staff, the waiting staff. Oh. And he thought, I never would have hired this person. So he gave a very good first impression on video, but he said, if I'd just taken him for a coffee, I would have thought, I don't think this is the right guy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So what are the key elements here? I assume it's like your clothes and your body language. What else is it?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's really about respecting the other person in the appropriateness of the situation. Right. So if you go into a store, it's the responsibility of the sales assistant or the receptionist at a company or whatever. It's their responsibility to be dressed and behave appropriately for that scenario. People say, Well, do you have to be well dressed to create a good impression? You don't. You have to be appropriately dressed.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, what to represent the brand uh in an appropriate way.

SPEAKER_01:

So if your brand is cool, then you can be cool. And therefore you can probably be more hi. Great to see you. How's your day? Right. And if you're going into a more formal situation, like a bank or something, maybe you want them to be more formal.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, it's but but there must be something universal here. And I would have thought personal grooming is universal. It doesn't really matter what you're wearing. Wash your face, be clean, brush your hair.

SPEAKER_01:

You don't want bits of soup in your beard, for example. You want to look hygienic.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you judge somebody on a hairstyle as a first impression?

SPEAKER_01:

You might do it. That might be a generational thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Some people would. I mean, if you're going into a firm that's going to give you advice and somebody's dressed with a mehican, you might think, is this person really going to take my issue seriously?

SPEAKER_00:

I know, I know it's tricky. It's really difficult. Well, here's a story. I was talking to this young person the other day who went during the COVID period for a job interview. And she said that she wore a mask during her job interview because that's what you had to do at the time. This person has facial piercings, but because she had a mask on, the interviewer couldn't see it.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

She immediately got the job. She's one of their best employees. And the employer only just now said, I'm not sure I would have employed you if I saw your piercings.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. So that's down to his prejudice, essentially, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

I think we should train ourselves not to think about those things because personal style, whether that's a haircut or tattoos or all those things, I think you just have to set those aside now.

SPEAKER_01:

So therefore it comes back to what is the attitude of the person?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's the attitude, but I also think, well, you've always said this, Robin. It's about eye contact and it's about tone of voice and it's about you just said it earlier, a warm smile.

SPEAKER_01:

A warm smile and a genuine smile. It's not the false corporate hello, it's the genuineness, really. Yeah. One of my big clients is the boss of a big financial company, and they have a lovely office in London with, I don't know, twenty, thirty floors or whatever it is. It's the first time I went there, the reception staff just looked up and they said, Yes. There wasn't a hello, I was just yes. So I said, Good morning. And I had a nice smile and I said, Good morning, hello, and how's your day going? And they said, I may have your name. Oh, didn't even respond to your reason. They treated me as if I was not important. It was only when they knew that I was going to work with the boss, suddenly they stood up and the red carpet was rolled out.

SPEAKER_00:

You're basically saying if you work on a reception desk, you should treat everybody absolutely equally. There's no such thing as a person who's more important than another.

SPEAKER_01:

I could have been saying I've got a million pounds to invest.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you could have been there to fix the IT equipment, to be the catering for a smart lunch. You actually could have been there to be the guest speaker.

SPEAKER_01:

They don't know that.

SPEAKER_00:

And they don't know that. And so they shouldn't make any judgments.

SPEAKER_01:

And I said to the boss, can I have a conversation about your reception staff? And he said, What? He said, My reception staff are very friendly. They're super friendly to me. I said, Yes, but you're the boss, right? Yeah. I said, they weren't friendly with me until they knew I was coming to see you. And he said, Oh, do you think you want to have a session with them? I think we should. I said.

SPEAKER_00:

So I have to turn this on myself. I'm sure this doesn't happen to you, but when you go up to a reception desk, if you're a bit late and you walk up to the desk, I often have to repeat my name and then I have to spell it and everything, and then I should just give myself five more minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's interesting because you often say with your name, which is a beautiful name, Siane, but it's spelt S-I-A-N. So a lot of people would pronounce it Sean. I say the Welsh Sean. And you've said to me, you often have to repeat the name several times. I wonder if there's a way of making it easier. I now, because my surname, Kermode, is not one that people know how to spell necessarily unless they've seen it written down. Yeah. So I give them a business card. Oh, you give them a business card. Because I make their life easy. But the first thing I always say, apart from good morning, how's your day going, if that's appropriate, I always say, I wonder if you could help me. Oh, that's a good idea. Here's my card. I've got an appointment to see such and such.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's an excellent idea. So what we're basically saying is be neat and tidy, be present, listen, have a positive attitude, a warm smile. These are the responsibilities of both sides of creating the first impression. But I think more than anything, when let's say I'm interviewing somebody or I'm being interviewed, confidence is very visible. You should be confident.

SPEAKER_01:

Confident without being arrogant, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes I can see somebody fidgeting, they're biting their nails. You can see them slightly fumbling, they're trying to turn their papers over.

SPEAKER_01:

Or they're fiddling with their mobile phone, pretending they have lots of text when they don't.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Robin, we've talked a lot about the person at reception. But what about the other angle? You know, the way we walk in, I mean, don't you think our confidence also has to be visible?

SPEAKER_01:

Certainly, if I walk into big corporate buildings, if I'm going and doing training and things, just the way I walk in, I almost turn it on in a way, the confidence. I walk differently, still authentic, but you walk in a way where they know you're there for the right reason. And they immediately treat you differently if your intention is I'm here because I'm I have a right to be here in this.

SPEAKER_00:

I try and do that. You know those revolving doors, right? And you spit out the other side of the revolving door and I march to the reception desk and then I think, I'm in the wrong place.

SPEAKER_01:

But the thing about first impressions is if something goes wrong on a first impression, it's not necessarily a bad thing because it's memorable. So imagine you're going for a job interview, and as you're walking in, you trip up and you spill your coffee or whatever. It's not a great start, but it's how you deal with it. Right. So the first impression is, oh, something went wrong, but the person dealt with it brilliantly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I was doing some interviewing. You know, it was an internship, and he said, I will do anything. Before we start this interview, I will do anything for this job. I just came from Greece. I came with my young wife. I need a job, and I was in the Greek army, and I am disciplined, timely, and I will take instruction. And needs to say, he got the job.

SPEAKER_01:

Of course he would. Yeah. I remember my father when I was young. We had a kitchen in those days where you could see the cars drive up. And this man came up and he was a junior salesman. My father was the sales manager at the time, and he pulled out, got out of his car, closed the door, and walked towards our front door. And my father looked out of the window and he said, That man will have my job in six months.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh.

SPEAKER_01:

And he was absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_01:

The way he got out of the car, there was such a natural grounded confidence. So you thought, this guy's going places.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I know this sounds a bit offbeat, right? But I think animals are quite a good judge of character. Lots of people say, Oh goodness, you know, my dog really likes you. It changes their impression of you if their dog really likes you. Maybe that's why they have the dog. That's true, isn't it? Or they always say, you know, the cat jumps up in your lap and they go, Oh, he doesn't like anybody, but he likes you. Yeah, yeah. You know. So I suppose vets know about this?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, vets tend to see animals when they are in pain or under pressure. So an owner might take, say, a small animal like a cat or a dog along and put the animal on the table, and the vet might have to hold the animal to feel something. And they need to have a pressure that is firm enough to make them feel safe, but not too firm that they want to try to escape. I think that's exactly what happens in first impressions with humans, is you want to create this safe space where it's safe enough for somebody to feel comfortable, but not too firm that they want to run away. So if you're a salesperson and you force somebody into a corner, they want to run away. So I think the vet analogy is quite interesting on first impressions for humans.

SPEAKER_00:

I can see your point that a vet is working that way in order to calm the animal down. I wonder, I don't know, do animals do that to each other, do you think?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they do go around sniffing each other, don't they? They do. They are judging. Do they feel safe? That's ultimately what they're doing on a first impressions. Do they feel safe with this other animal? And I think that's what we as humans do.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it really about being safe? Is that what we want in a first impression? I'm not sure it is. I think we want to create a first impression where we give ourselves some sort of status that we're hoping the other person recognises.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's really interesting. Safety has to be there. Because if we don't feel safe, we don't want to go into the next level.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Robin, just a sec. Hang on. If a policeman or woman arrives at a situation, their first impression has to be they're in control. But you know, you're going to do this the easy way or the hard way. You know, they're creating a first impression of being in charge.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I remember my mother saying to me, she was a teacher, and she said the important thing about first impressions with a class is that you're in control as a teacher. You have boundaries. She said the very first time you walk in there, if the pupils are messing around and there's lots of noise, the worst thing to do is to stand there and say, quiet please, quiet please. The most important thing is you stand there and you say nothing. And eventually they all quiet and down. So the first impression you make under those circumstances is in my classroom, these are the rules, you haven't actually said anything at all, but you've created a really good first impression.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I didn't realise actually there were so many points at which you make a first impression. You know, even on this podcast, Robin, I imagine people listen to one of the episodes and they get an impression straight away.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the same in a way as writing a novel or starting a movie or starting a piece of music. If you think of all the great pieces of literature, they have great first lines. They do. Can you give us one? If you think of classic novels like George Orwell's nineteen eighty four, yeah. Brilliant first line. It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen. Now you're suddenly in a parallel universe, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Music as well. Think of all the great pop songs. We can hear the first two or three notes of a song and it goes boom boom boom boom or whatever. And we know we know what it is. We're straight into the song.

SPEAKER_00:

You know those big ones like Alton John and Abba and things like that. You just know, don't you?

SPEAKER_01:

And also if you think of theatre, of course, the first line of Hamlet, for example, who's there? Bang, you're straight in. You're straight in. So the impression you get is it's focused.

SPEAKER_00:

So let's try and wrap this up. I mean, anything to do with other human beings is complex. We know that. So how would you just summarize this whole piece, whether it's email, the letter, over the telephone, or in person? What are the very basic things that we need to know?

SPEAKER_01:

It's about being focused and about being present. In other words, the first impression we want to have, the first impression we want to give, is that we or they are present, they're focused on us. We're not an irritant, we're not getting in the way. They are there for us. And we think in an appropriate way for that situation, they want to be there and they want to make us feel comfortable and welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I think ultimately we have one chance to make a first impression when we connect with another human being.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's really use that chance every day to make that one impression.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00:

Robin, thank you so much. You know, I know we know each other very well, so we don't have to create a first impression with each other.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, we don't anymore. But one thing, Siane. Can you remember the first impression I made on you? Oh, yes. And that was about 20 years ago. It was, it was. And I can remember the first impression you made on me. I looked into your eyes and I thought, this is the woman I want to marry. And well, after about 10 years of keeping me waiting, you finally said yes. So thank you very much for that, Tier. Thank you. Another fabulous episode. Thank you very much. We'll see you next time. Have you ever wished you could become a confident speaker or presenter? Then why not join my online masterclass? Speak so your audience will listen. In ten easy to follow modules, you can become a confident and authentic speaker. For more information, visit robinkermo.com.